My Request of those that do not live in the Keene Metro Area

[J’raxis 270145]

(Moderators: I just posted and noticed the board changed "unsock" to mafia.  Isn't this how the govern-ment acts, changing words and misrepresenting what people say in the war on drugs? Rest assured, I'm perfectly capable of choosing my words, by changing them your misrepresenting ME! I find this very disrespectful, and I'm not sure if I'm going to continue posting on a forum that chooses to alter my statements without prior warning or my consent, what is happening to this place?)

Don't get your panties in a bunch over it. I've simply gotten used to some of the juvenile nonsense that goes on around here and just work around it instead of complain about it. People who are halfway there on the freedom concept get chased off by people calling them assholes. Thousands of posts get deleted because the forum admins change their mind about what they want here, after they said they'd only lock the boards, not delete them. The karma thing is purported to be a rudimentary reputation system, yet the admins will add or deduct thousands of points from people because they don't like them. NH Free is sold to new activists as if it's some sort of central repository and meeting place for the whole movement here, but it's run like a private little fiefdom—because "it's private property" and "they can." Some people don't really get, or care about, the difference between what you can do, and what you should do. Whatever.

Of all this, the word filter is probably the most trivial. Add a null group of tags in the middle of the word:—

Code Select Expand

gov[i][/i]ernment

—and that fixes it.

[J’raxis 270145]

The person behind that position is choosing to be there.  He is responsible for his own actions.  If he locks up a person who hasn't hurt anyone, he is responsible for his act.

This is an undeniable truth, painful as it may be. I can't imagine how someone can be in the role of police officer and not knowingly violate people's rights and still keep their job for any length of time. I've heard the argument that if they leave based on their conscience, despicable people will take their places, but that sounds too much like the justification games people play to participate in politics under the pretense of reducing the harm. "I'm knowingly doing some harm to specific individuals, but presumably reducing the overall harm in a collectivist sort of way because someone else in my place would perhaps arrest more people or write more tickets."

It's only a justification game if people are coming up with that rationale after the fact, only when cornered, &c..

I've also seen this type of thing compared to Oskar Schindler. There are an awful lot of people who are probably really glad he didn't just sell his factories off to another German industrialist and flee the country, in order to keep his own conscience clear.

[Caleb]

ok, but there you are getting into pragmatic considerations, not moral ones. So it hardly calls for people to get angry about it. It's a little fun. Kat and Russell maybe sometimes don't spend all their time instructing people. Maybe sometimes they joke around and have fun. No biggee. Relax. Life doesn't have to be all serious all the time. 
***********************
C'mon, Sam. That's a little on the ridiculous side, don't you think?

I'm right with you when you say not to insult people. But you don't want to water down what you're saying either. How can you possibly convince other people of what the mafia is if even we refuse to call it organized crime? I want other people to come to that conclusion, when I'm afraid to say it? Please! It's just a little fun, chill out. It's no different than calling the draft "slavery".

I'm not upset one bit. I simply don't want my words twisted without my knowledge or consent. I also don't want to have to re-read posts to go back and fix them or risk alienating the very people I'm trying to reach (and we know they read this forum), all so a few people who spend a lot of time on this board, as opposed to doing out in the world, can have a few laughs. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

Caleb, I have no problem with using terms like Mafia, my last video use the term Blue Light Gang to describe Police, and I intend to popularize that term. When I see them on the road with someone pulled over I yell out "Go Home Blue Light Gang!" along with giving them a thumbs down. You should see the looks I get back. However, to take my words and twist them like that in my opinion threatens the credibility of the forum. Sure "we" may get it, but does the bureaucrat coming across NHFree.com for the first time understand? I'm sorry, I don't agree with jeopardizing the message and it's impact so a few people can laugh. I would like to think people can be a little more creative in bringing humor to the board.

It boils down to this, I work to meet people where they are at. Taking the average American and starting out a conversation by calling go-vernment the mafia is going to end in them writing you off as ridiculous +90% of the time. I know because I've done it in similar ways with friends, family, and strangers. Through this little inside joke, it's potentially writing off 90% of the people we need to convince the most. I don't think that's the least bit worth it.

Sam, I sympathize with you, I really do. I believe you and I probably tend to see things through just about exactly the same lenses. I just had a chat with my dad a few days back where I was saying how much I feel that the problem in communicating with people is that we aren't willing to meet them where they are at. In those exact same words that you are using.

But, while this forum is indeed visited by many a paid agent of the state, that is not its purpose. This forum doesn't exist for converting agents of the state to libertarianism or anarchism or any other -ism. Russell has repeatedly said that this forum is so that Russell and Kat and their friends can hang out and sometimes plan to do stuff. I like it, cause it helps me keep in touch with my friends back in NH. It's silly to think that, when all is said and done and history is written, that people will look back and say, "wow, you know, when I think back on how freedom was won, it seems so clear that it was because the state agents were converted via the forum at nhunderground.com". It just doesn't work that way. What you do, going out and being among people and making friends and living your life and showing what freedom is to your neighbors, that's what wins people over. Not preaching to them on internet forums.

[Caleb]

(Moderators: I just posted and noticed the board changed "unsock" to mafia.  Isn't this how the govern-ment acts, changing words and misrepresenting what people say in the war on drugs? Rest assured, I'm perfectly capable of choosing my words, by changing them your misrepresenting ME! I find this very disrespectful, and I'm not sure if I'm going to continue posting on a forum that chooses to alter my statements without prior warning or my consent, what is happening to this place?)

Don't get your panties in a bunch over it. I've simply gotten used to some of the juvenile nonsense that goes on around here and just work around it instead of complain about it. People who are halfway there on the freedom concept get chased off by people calling them assholes. Thousands of posts get deleted because the forum admins change their mind about what they want here, after they said they'd only lock the boards, not delete them. The karma thing is purported to be a rudimentary reputation system, yet the admins will add or deduct thousands of points from people because they don't like them. NH Free is sold to new activists as if it's some sort of central repository and meeting place for the whole movement here, but it's run like a private little fiefdom—because "it's private property" and "they can." Some people don't really get, or care about, the difference between what you can do, and what you should do. Whatever.

Of all this, the word filter is probably the most trivial. Add a null group of tags in the middle of the word:—

Code Select Expand

gov[i][/i]ernment

—and that fixes it.

It's funny how, for someone who supposedly overlooks it so much, how often you seem to comment on your disagreement.

[J’raxis 270145]

(Moderators: I just posted and noticed the board changed "unsock" to mafia.  Isn't this how the govern-ment acts, changing words and misrepresenting what people say in the war on drugs? Rest assured, I'm perfectly capable of choosing my words, by changing them your misrepresenting ME! I find this very disrespectful, and I'm not sure if I'm going to continue posting on a forum that chooses to alter my statements without prior warning or my consent, what is happening to this place?)

Don't get your panties in a bunch over it. I've simply gotten used to some of the juvenile nonsense that goes on around here and just work around it instead of complain about it. People who are halfway there on the freedom concept get chased off by people calling them assholes. Thousands of posts get deleted because the forum admins change their mind about what they want here, after they said they'd only lock the boards, not delete them. The karma thing is purported to be a rudimentary reputation system, yet the admins will add or deduct thousands of points from people because they don't like them. NH Free is sold to new activists as if it's some sort of central repository and meeting place for the whole movement here, but it's run like a private little fiefdom—because "it's private property" and "they can." Some people don't really get, or care about, the difference between what you can do, and what you should do. Whatever.

Of all this, the word filter is probably the most trivial. Add a null group of tags in the middle of the word:—

Code Select Expand

gov[i][/i]ernment

—and that fixes it.

It's funny how, for someone who supposedly overlooks it so much, how often you seem to comment on your disagreement.

Where'd I say I overlook it?

[Coconut]

It's silly to think that, when all is said and done and history is written, that people will look back and say, "wow, you know, when I think back on how freedom was won, it seems so clear that it was because the state agents were converted via the forum at nhunderground.com". It just doesn't work that way.

Do you deny that this forum has brought positive change? People being able to organize in one place, share ideas and experiences. It's grown and continues to grow. Changes like word filtering or other user-alienating actions hinders the growth. It does not it any way kill what anyone is trying to do, but if the forum degrades so much that someone new has to start a forum just so we can have serious conversation, we are that far set back.

[J’raxis 270145]

It's silly to think that, when all is said and done and history is written, that people will look back and say, "wow, you know, when I think back on how freedom was won, it seems so clear that it was because the state agents were converted via the forum at nhunderground.com". It just doesn't work that way.

Do you deny that this forum has brought positive change? People being able to organize in one place, share ideas and experiences. It's grown and continues to grow. Changes like word filtering or other user-alienating actions hinders the growth. It does not it any way kill what anyone is trying to do, but if the forum degrades so much that someone new has to start a forum just so we can have serious conversation, we are that far set back.

That's already happened.

Twice, in fact.

[Caleb]

Where'd I say I overlook it?

I've simply gotten used to some of the juvenile nonsense that goes on around here and just work around it instead of complain about it.

For someone who works around it instead of complaining about it, you sure complain about it a lot.

That's already happened.

Twice, in fact.

Yes. This forum isn't the place to plan violence or plan politics. (Alas, I repeat myself.) I'm glad you've finally discovered that. The next step in the grieving process is acceptance. You'll get there one day. 

[Coconut]

That's already happened.

Twice, in fact.

Hey. It's like NHfree forums only different. Just all the same people.

[Caleb]

Do you deny that this forum has brought positive change? People being able to organize in one place, share ideas and experiences. It's grown and continues to grow. Changes like word filtering or other user-alienating actions hinders the growth. It does not it any way kill what anyone is trying to do, but if the forum degrades so much that someone new has to start a forum just so we can have serious conversation, we are that far set back.

It's only user-alienating if you decide to get worked up about it. The funny thing is that all you people who are complaining about the word filters are probably prolonging it. If you ignore it, then once the fun wears off, there will be a new joke.

[J’raxis 270145]

The next step in the grieving process is acceptance. You'll get there one day. 

When someone's doing something I don't think they should be, I won't accept it. If I did, I don't think I'd be here fighting the State, now would I?

[David]

I didn't mean to cause a new shism, or to come off as preachy.  I understand that the police choose to harrass people for victimless crimes. 
My goal is to get them to choose not to enforce their own laws.  I think a combo of civ dis, and letting them know what it is that I want them to do may be productive.  (the unions, before the gov't santioned them did it to great effect)  I would like to see good people quit their evil jobs.  The harder it is for gov't to hire, the sooner people will see the system as morally bankrupt. 

Anyway, i'll shut up.  Do what you want, and if it works, great.  If it doesn't, well...like I said, I'll shut up. 

[dalebert]

But, while this forum is indeed visited by many a paid agent of the state, that is not its purpose. This forum doesn't exist for converting agents of the state to libertarianism or anarchism or any other -ism.

I don't know about paid agents of the state. They have an awful long way to go. However, I attribute a considerable part of my own growth toward understanding true liberty to conversations I had on forums; mostly this one. I've seen it happen to others too. I can think of a specific case elsewhere. I don't want to be gossipy or presumptuous but it sure seems like someone had their views changed considerably by intelligent conversation on a forum. It was also those kinds of conversations that made me curious of the people I was developing such a liking for and want to come here sooner rather than later.

[Russell Kanning]

Thousands of posts get deleted because the forum admins change their mind about what they want here, after they said they'd only lock the boards, not delete them. The karma thing is purported to be a rudimentary reputation system, yet the admins will add or deduct thousands of points from people because they don't like them. NH Free is sold to new activists as if it's some sort of central repository and meeting place for the whole movement here, but it's run like a private little fiefdom—because "it's private property" and "they can." Some people don't really get, or care about, the difference between what you can do, and what you should do.

Since we had to move our database ... we cut out the extra posts. We never promised we would keep it all. Lex has a copy.
We don't purport that the karma thing does anything good.
I don't sell NH Free as a central repository for the whole movement. If we have false ads out there, we can change them.
Kat and I started this forum to hang out with friends. If other like minded folks join us .... that is great. If they complain later that we are not what they want .... they can leave the party. No real harm done.

[Russell Kanning]

Of all this, the word filter is probably the most trivial. Add a null group of tags in the middle of the word:—

Code Select Expand

gov[i][/i]ernment

—and that fixes it.

one of the interesting thing is watching you guys jump through hoops to avoid calling the government the mafia ... it is very revealing