The Price of Gas

[John Edward Mercier]

wasn't the big depression caused by debt?

kinda like now?

Kola

Pretty much.

[kola]

yeah debt...
and the dollar is worth shit.

so what happens when other countries no longer accept the dollar?

I either read or dreamt that some places in NY are not accepting the US dollar.

Kola 

[John Edward Mercier]

When others stop buying US debt... the interest rate rises.
The FED can only force them down by devaluing the dollar.

[Raineyrocks]

Why on earth would you get rid of a microwave oven? It's not like it has porno pictures or Doritos and Pepsi ads going across the window while it cooks, it's just a tool. A tool that cooks things faster. Sure, ditch the cable, the video games (which I think are actually a better choice than TV, since they are interactive and require hand-eye coordination, problem solving and goal seeking behavior. The Wii even requires real exercise for some games -I want one!-) and get the kids in the garden or whatever, but getting rid of a perfectly good appliance seems silly. Could you elaborate on your reasons?

Sure I'll elaborate my reasons but I'd appreciate it if this doesn't turn into a debate with you since your only asking me "my" reasons not scientifically proven this or that with links to other pages, fair enough? 

I have a lot of reasons and I'll tell you the biggest one for me first.  I enjoy a busy kitchen like lots of timers going off, pots to heat my vegetables in, asking the family to participate with their meal instead of the modern conveniences , it seems more like the old way to me and I like it.

Now for my second reason, I don't believe microwaves are good for people and I do believe they change the normal vitamin content amongst other things also in food.  I've also read that it can, ( I'm not going off of links, just memory of what I've read in the past), alter food in a bad way.  Then again to be fair I've read articles that state microwaves help preserve more of the vitamin content than regular cooking so who knows?  I just know what feels right to me so I go with that.

I don't trust a lot of new technologies and I like the old way of doing things.  Our food is being messed with so bad anyway with food additives,  genetic modification, I don't feel like adding to it in any way.

I'm not a health nut even though I'd like to try eating and living more healthfully that's one of the reasons I quit smoking but anyways these are my main reasons. 

Thanks for asking even though I do sense some kind of sarcasm like Doritios ads and porno pictures going across the microwave screen.  To be perfectly honest I almost wasn't going to answer your question at all because it seems like you want a reason to mock me and I'm just not into talking to people like that.  I hope I'm wrong and you really just wanted my answers on why I got rid of the microwave. 

[kola]

I never bought into the microwave/radiation oven bullcrap and I wont eat anything microbombed. Its too bad they are also radiating most of the commerical meat and poultry nowadays too.

you are smart Rainey... by avoiding Dyboz. 


Kola

[Dylboz]

Fair enough, Rainey. I did just want to know why. The stuff about porno and Pepsi was meant to be funny, and a bit of a goad, yes, but I wanted to know what was threatening about a nuker, since it was obviously different than TV, another modern device you seem averse to. Steaming and boiling vegetables do destroy the vitamin content of food, and breakdown the fiber content, so yeah, microwave vegetables are often better than their steamed or boiled counterparts, but otherwise, I appreciate your reasons (well, the first if not so much the second). I love to cook, and most of the time, I use the traditional means (I'm building a smoker to let my "famous" ribs cook even longer and slower) because the results are usually better and I feel a greater sense of accomplishment when I'm done. I also think it's cool you get your family involved, and I can relate, because I really enjoy the time I spend with my girlfriend in our garden. I make my own pickles, I make creme brulé and bake from scratch. I am looking hard right now for local food sources, community supported agriculture, co-ops, etc. and I am thinking of building a chicken coop, city reg's permitting. Still, I'll re-heat my leftovers in the nuker. 

Anyway, as for my attitude, and Kola's enmity, it is because I am often and regularly shocked and dismayed at the ridiculously high level of adherence to pseudoscience and superstitious bullshit (including 9/11 "Truthism") I see among libertarians. It is as if when you cast off the prevailing wisdom about the state, you have to abandon reason and the scientific method along with it. Like, if the government approves it or recommends it or in any way supports it, it must be evil and wrong or a lie. Hey, they recommend vitamin C, are we going to dismiss that as a plot against us? Sure, fluoridation is bad, and the old 4 food groups were a product of the dairy and beef lobbies, but by and large, their dietary and public health recommendations are benign. Yes, we are the underdogs in terms of politics, but do we always have to identify with and adopt the ideas of the underdogs in say, healthcare and nutrition? Are we necessarily Luddites? I hope not, because I'm sort of a libertarian futurist, who looks to the free market, unfettered by regulation and trade barriers, to provide me with all kinds of cool new technologies for convenience and life extension, quick travel, cheap power, cybernetic enhancement, easy access to information and communication, and so much more (including fast cooking radiation emitting machines, you know that heat is radiation too, and the sun is a great big nuclear reactor, right?).

Look, the bottom line is, I got to where I am, morally, politically and emotionally, by applying reason and logic to the questions
of justice, commerce, and general human interaction while always putting individual rights at the very top of my hierarchy of values. Rigorous application of scientific analysis as well as taking my positions to their logical conclusions made me an atheist anarchist individualist. So, I'm inclined to apply such processes to things like Homeopathy, microwave ovens, chiropractic adjustment (I'm a regular client, Kola -thought to a D.O.-, it works, as far as it goes, for relief of pain due to stress and bad posture, but it wont cure the common cold) and The Secret, among other things. I generally tend toward the Penn Gillette comportment, and I trust the conclusions of scientists whose methods are sound and whose results can be duplicated.

Kola, you are welcome to stay out of my conversations if you find me and my opinions so distasteful.

[Dylboz]

I heard this story were some crazy people
burn a gas, in their house to heat water!!

Yikes!! Can you imagine.

I wish! I only have electric, so my stove is slow to heat, slow to cool (leaving dangerous heated elements exposed) and expensive to run. I was hoping perhaps to have an external propane system set up, but then, I may be moving up to NH before too long.

As for the water heater, I suspect I could get better results with solar, but I am in Arizona.

[Pat McCotter]

I heard this story were some crazy people
burn a gas, in their house to heat water!!

Yikes!! Can you imagine.

Yea, they should be using steam from the steam company!

Wait as minute! I don't work there anymore. They should use electric! From the utility my company sells to!

[Pat K]

  Dam if they do.

[NJLiberty]

Just my two cents on the microwave issue...

Dylboz is right in that fewer vitamins are leached out of vegetables into the scant bit of water used through microwaving than boiling or steaming, though I have seen some studies that indicate that the high temperatures generated by the microwave process also break certain vitamins and enzymes down more than conventional cooking, so I suppose it is a matter of picking your poison. I still find the appliance more trouble than it is worth however. Of course, I am not cooking on an electric stove. My heart goes out to anyone cooking on a conventional electric stove, those stoves suck!

I rarely ever use the microwave in my house because it heats the food unevenly even with a turntable, and quite frankly I haven't found that it saves all that much time over cooking it the normal way. About the only thing I use it for is reheating leftovers that would ordinarily go into a conventional oven. My father uses it to defrost meat sometimes, but I find that it changes the meat too much for my taste and still prefer to just thaw it on the counter. I know, I know, you are supposed to thaw it in the fridge, but we have been thawing it that way in my family since we had ice boxes and no one has contracted anything serious yet.

The price of gas actually went down a couple pennies here yesterday!!! I had an interesting discussion with a democrat at work yesterday about the whole price of oil thing. He of course wants the heads of Bush, Cheney, and the CEOs of the oil companies on platters since it is all their fault, and he wants the government to step in and fix the problem, punish the naughty oil companies, and make sure they can't charge any more than $2.50 per gallon for gasoline, and I think he said $2.00 per gallon for heating oil. So I said to him, ok Paul, since oil will still be traded as a commodity who is going to pay for the rest of the bill if oil and gasoline are trading for more than your price points. He said the government. And I said, where are they going to get the money from? They'll have to raise taxes. So I said, then you think it is fair that I should not only have to pay for my gas, but part of your gas and your heating oil? He said, no its not fair, but at least we can keep the price of gas down! I explained to him that the price of gas would still be the same in his scenario, he just wouldn't be paying all of it at the pump, he would be paying part of the cost through his new taxes. He looked at me like I was an idiot and told me I was wrong, that we would only be paying $2.50 per gallon for it. I just stared at him for a minute and shook my head and walked away.

Aside from all the other issues with Paul, I have to wonder why he, like so many other people, view taxes as something we don't actually pay. I work in sales right now. People tend to get excited and call their friends or family when they buy the products and will tell them that just bought the thing for $2,500 when in actuality after taxes it comes to $2,675! It's as if that $175 doesn't exist. They know they are paying it, but they just seem to blank it out as if it weren't there.

I would love to see gas stations go back to posting the pricing the way they did years ago, where it listed the price of the gallon of gas, then the state tax, then the federal tax, and the final price at the bottom. Might wake a few people up as to what their gas actually costs.

George

[Lloyd Danforth]

I wonder how much  Microwave Ovens save on  total electric use, nation wide.  I'll bet it's a lot.

[Pat McCotter]

Here is a sign of the times.

[coffeeseven]

I am really excited about the company in Wolfeboro that has the electric conversion kits. I watched the whole video series of the Aussie that did the conversion. He had very little experience with anything automotive but he spent the time to figure it out. 8 months later he has a functional electric car converted from gas and will never visit a gas station again. Aside from the  human powered transports I think electric is going to be the new big thing. I'm sure home brewers can reverse engineer the design to save money. 

As for hybrids they remind me of a bike with training wheels. Can't quite break the dependency.

[John Edward Mercier]

Just my two cents on the microwave issue...

Dylboz is right in that fewer vitamins are leached out of vegetables into the scant bit of water used through microwaving than boiling or steaming, though I have seen some studies that indicate that the high temperatures generated by the microwave process also break certain vitamins and enzymes down more than conventional cooking, so I suppose it is a matter of picking your poison. I still find the appliance more trouble than it is worth however. Of course, I am not cooking on an electric stove. My heart goes out to anyone cooking on a conventional electric stove, those stoves suck!

I rarely ever use the microwave in my house because it heats the food unevenly even with a turntable, and quite frankly I haven't found that it saves all that much time over cooking it the normal way. About the only thing I use it for is reheating leftovers that would ordinarily go into a conventional oven. My father uses it to defrost meat sometimes, but I find that it changes the meat too much for my taste and still prefer to just thaw it on the counter. I know, I know, you are supposed to thaw it in the fridge, but we have been thawing it that way in my family since we had ice boxes and no one has contracted anything serious yet.

The price of gas actually went down a couple pennies here yesterday!!! I had an interesting discussion with a democrat at work yesterday about the whole price of oil thing. He of course wants the heads of Bush, Cheney, and the CEOs of the oil companies on platters since it is all their fault, and he wants the government to step in and fix the problem, punish the naughty oil companies, and make sure they can't charge any more than $2.50 per gallon for gasoline, and I think he said $2.00 per gallon for heating oil. So I said to him, ok Paul, since oil will still be traded as a commodity who is going to pay for the rest of the bill if oil and gasoline are trading for more than your price points. He said the government. And I said, where are they going to get the money from? They'll have to raise taxes. So I said, then you think it is fair that I should not only have to pay for my gas, but part of your gas and your heating oil? He said, no its not fair, but at least we can keep the price of gas down! I explained to him that the price of gas would still be the same in his scenario, he just wouldn't be paying all of it at the pump, he would be paying part of the cost through his new taxes. He looked at me like I was an idiot and told me I was wrong, that we would only be paying $2.50 per gallon for it. I just stared at him for a minute and shook my head and walked away.

Aside from all the other issues with Paul, I have to wonder why he, like so many other people, view taxes as something we don't actually pay. I work in sales right now. People tend to get excited and call their friends or family when they buy the products and will tell them that just bought the thing for $2,500 when in actuality after taxes it comes to $2,675! It's as if that $175 doesn't exist. They know they are paying it, but they just seem to blank it out as if it weren't there.

I would love to see gas stations go back to posting the pricing the way they did years ago, where it listed the price of the gallon of gas, then the state tax, then the federal tax, and the final price at the bottom. Might wake a few people up as to what their gas actually costs.

George

In NH, this would be 18.4 cents State, and 18.4 cents Federal.

[NJLiberty]

Thank you sir. I believe it is about 14.5 cents for NJ. PA and NY are both around 31 cents or so last I knew.

George