Russell Arrested 5/29/08 for no government drivers license

[kola]

Yes Giggan... and this is where Shanes World cannot understand our reasoning.

And even when presented to him he won't acknowledge it. He likes his job as a schoolyard bully and he will lie, steal and cheat to convince himself and others that what he does is warrented and right. 

Kola

[firecracker joe]

giggan seems to be wise for his age. were you homeschooled?
loyd that disguise kicks ass.
i'd bet the last hair on my bald head that russell has more otr experience than any copper on this forum. and could probably drive circles around them without there stinking govt. papers, bunch a nazis

[Russell Kanning]

I don't drive fast like they do.
It is all about the piece of paper .... the main way the government controls people is through the drivers license.

[Giggan]

giggan seems to be wise for his age. were you homeschooled?

Thank you, and no, I suffered my educational internment at Concord High School. I'm a former go with the flow Republican, and woke up my first year of college. Not from college though, through interacting with free staters.

[Lex]

First, some background.  I have outlined, in detail to Lauren and more basically in these forums, my views on the "Driver's License" concept.  Call them "papers" if it makes you feel better, but whatever you call them, they are NOT a requirement to live in this country, not even to travel.  However, if you want to be in control of a car, you need a license.  The reasoning behind this is simple: there are lots of people out there who regularly endanger the rest of us (and our families).  Whether they routinely drive drunk, drive recklessly (like the motorcyclist from the other day who initiated the events that eventually led to my arresting Russell), habitually speed etc.  The licensing process attempts to keep them off the roads by having the requirement that everyone needs one to drive, and when you lose your license you lose your privilege to drive that 2000lb hunk of steel on the roads.  The consequences of getting caught driving without a license, or on a suspended license, deter most of those dangerous drivers, in my experience.  And keeps them from driving, and endangering you and me.

But Russell didn't need a license to be arrested. So, if someone is driving dangerously and you pull them over, what difference does it make if they have a license or not? You arrest them and fine them and depending on how bad the situation was throw them in jail? I don't see how this has anything to do with licensing. If someone gets a drivers license legally and then goes out drinking and drives home, the license didn't stop this situation. You STILL have to have a BAM in order to prevent other, future, BAMs from occuring. The licensed drunk driver would have had to swerve on the road or run a light/stop sign or hit a mailbox, etc.

I've never known people to worry about losing their license for driving dangerously, they are almost always worried about being pulled over (the outcome of being pulled over can be losing of license, but doesn't have to be and again that is not the initial fear). So, if being pulled over is the fear that keeps people from speeding or driving drunk then the license is marginally useful and costs more to maintain than the benefits it provides (the only benefit I can think of is as an ID).

As a police officer how can you know if someone driving has a drivers license? You have to pull them over first and ask them! So, unless you can tell if a driver of a car is license or not, I cannot honestly accept your argument that the only reason people drive safely is because they are afraid to lose their license. In my opinion they drive safely because:

1) They don't want to get pulled over:
  1a) If they have insurance, their premium may go up.
  1b) Some people can lose their job if they get so many tickets.
  1c) They have to PAY A FINE.
  1d) Their time is wasted, they could have reached their destination in the 15 or so minutes that it takes to be stopped.
2) They don't want to die! Some people actually drive safely because they think ItsAGoodIdea(TM)
3) They don't want to damage their car. Especially if they don't have insurance.

It would be interesting if someone did a poll on this but I have a pretty strong hunch that losing your license is all the way at the bottom of the list for most people and that the things I listed above are much more common reasons for people not going 100mph in the opposite lane.

[highline]

Shane, would you arrest him if he was privately certified?  If yes, you are not protecting anyone, but acting as a govt revenue enforcer.

Ian, I would like to answer this question.  You know I respect you a great deal and as a daily listener to your show I have you and Mark to credit with my becoming so very educated on issues of liberty.

If I caught Russell driving under suspension but was privately certified - indeed I would arrest him.  If I caught him smoking a joint - indeed I would arrest him for that.  That is current policy and neither Lt. Maxfield or I have the authority to simply substitute our judgment for the judgment of the policy makers.  In my off time I will fight tooth and nail to enhance liberty, even at my own peril.

Now- a few of you (not you Ian, you have been an ambassador of good will for this) (kola in particular) are really starting to attack Lt. Maxfield in an inappropriate manner.  This is just absurd.  Both he and I understand the "mob" argument and the "point of a gun" argument.  Did you specific people not see me testify publicly about why the Marijuana laws are unjust?  I said on the record and ON VIDEO that government is enforced by the point of a gun.  I have made myself very unpopular with some in my profession because I believe in standing up for what is right.  I hear quite frequently negative comments about myself made by those within my profession for the activism I engage in.  I have been referred to (in a derogatory manner) many times as a "free stater."  I do not doubt for a minute that there are people talking negatively about Lt. Maxfield for his willingness to interact here with people that most in law enforcement would not even give the time of day. 

Speaking for myself: I am here because I would like to foster good relations and understanding between those who work within the system and those who want the system changed or abolished altogether.  Coming here and posting and interacting with folks here I do knowing full well that many in law enforcement are critiquing what I am writing.  Not a day goes by that I do not hear some sort of comment about my involvement with the "free staters."  I have been trying very hard to be an "ambassador" to teach those in law enforcement (as Lt. Maxfield has been) what the FSP is all about. 

I simply will not tolerate people like Kola being tolerated.

Kola: I find your post, which I view as a subtle threat regarding the Lt's home as completely inappropriate. 

Kat/Russell:  I request that you please ban Kola for his threatening actions and for being such an antagonist to productive conversation and interaction. 

If you do not feel it necessary to ban Kola for acting in this manner - then please ban me.  I have come to this board to offer my knowledge of the law and to be available to debate issues with people in an equal and open environment.  Should you not ban him for his actions, I personally will view it as you tacitly supporting him, and will remove myself from your board.

Should that be the case you can subtract my name from the list of TWO people in law enforcement that I am aware of (including me) who have been vocal supporters and allies of the a-political wing of the FSP.

Respectfully,

Bradley

[kola]

brad,

what u say

and what u do

are total opposites.

your actions make u the hypocritical thug that u are.

you make a fool of yourself by commenting about such nonsense.


so tell me brad, r u going to arrest Ian next time you see him driving?

kola

[kola]

Kola: I find your post, which I view as a subtle threat regarding the Lt's home as completely inappropriate. 

Listen boy...your scumbag buddy mad max dug into my personal shit first. I have enough contacts as you do, maybe even more. Home address, tel numbers and personal info is all public records are open for all. You oinkers think you can do it and that we have to accept it, but when it gets turned around on yous, you feel violated. Too damn bad.... get used to it because the more you push the more I will shove.

welcome to payback time.

Kola

[kola]

Kat/Russell:  I request that you please ban Kola for his threatening actions and for being such an antagonist to productive conversation and interaction. 

when a cop is pinned into a corner this is how they act. They try and twist things and use "threat" as if they are in some type of danger. What a classic example huh? This is the way to get away with murdering people... or when they want to beat the shit out of someone they say you were "resisting arrest"

Brad, your sniveling is a last ditch effort because you do not like taking any shit, you'd rather give it, thus this frustrates you. Usually your intimidation makes folks back down but sorry pal, you don't pull that on me.

"Threatening actions" huh?
Be careful or I will file a complaint against you and Shame. I have all your comments filed.

have a nice day,
Kola

[highline]

Kola: I find your post, which I view as a subtle threat regarding the Lt's home as completely inappropriate. 

Listen boy...your scumbag buddy mad max dug into my personal shit first. I have enough contacts as you do, maybe even more. Home address, tel numbers and personal info is all public records are open for all. You oinkers think you can do it and that we have to accept it, but when it gets turned around on yous, you feel violated. Too damn bad.... get used to it because the more you push the more I will shove.

welcome to payback time.

Kola

I do not care if you post my address for all to see.  I do not recall Lt. Maxfield ever making a comment like you did. 

Tell you what, give me a call.  603-205-3181...  Perhaps we can discuss this as men do and come to a better understanding.

[kola]

I am sure you are quite aware that he did a backround check on me.

Call you? LOL. more intimidation? Why would I want to speak with you? I dislike you. I do not have tp prove that I am a man. Maybe you somehow do, if thats whats up yur ass.

If you can't take the heat here, leave. or just click me on ignore.

But this bothers you doesn't it? .. because you do not like it when someone gets in your face (so to speak). Its hard pill to swallow huh?

Kola

[highline]

"Threatening actions" huh?
Be careful or I will file a complaint against you and Shame. I have all your comments filed.

You know exactly the context of the message when you sent it.

A complaint?  Be my guest.

[highline]

I am sure you are quite aware that he did a backround check on me.

Kola

I did not know that.

[kola]

What burns my butt is that you 2 goons come on this forum and talk "liberty" and "good cop" and then Shame on Maxfield goes and busts Russell. Thats the kicker and why I am displeased with both of you..and it only proves my statemant that there are NO good cops.

but your ego can't even move out of the way for a second to let that one sink in.

Kola

[highline]

What burns my butt is that you 2 goons come on this forum and talk "liberty" and "good cop" and then Shame on Maxfield goes and busts Russell. Thats the kicker and why I am displeased with both of you..and it only proves my statemant that there are NO good cops.

but your ego can't even move out of the way for a second to let that one sink in.

Kola

Kola,

Do you think its possible for there to be good cops who enforce current policies but strive to change them?

And also, if Lt. Maxfield posted a message about you in the same context as you did I would feel the same way.