Russell Arrested 5/29/08 for no government drivers license

[firecracker joe]

  nice job caleb
well said, and my thoughts are the same
first they hijack russell then they highline his thread. typical

[K. Darien Freeheart]

What is the point of no more. What is the point of evil that you aren't willing to cross? You know that throwing people in prison for using drugs is evil, but you're willing to do it.

I believe highline very much believes that the war on drugs is the wrong course of action to be taking, but I don't believe he thinks the war on drugs is unethical. I think it rankles at him that it's inefficient and that this inefficiency has human costs.

There's a very distinct difference between that of a libertarian... We say "We're against the drug war" but what we MEAN is "We think it is a fundimental right to be able to shoot heroine." To me, telling me I don't own my body in that way is rape, flat out. "You can't shoot heroine" is as invasive and destructive as forcible rape, since both eliminate my control over my body. The distinction is that we all understand rape to be an unethical and disgusting act where as someone who's pragmatically against the "War on Drugs" may not support a persons right to do drugs.

I beleive it's possible, over time, to illustrate this and when that time comes that realization WILL provoke action. This doesn't however, excuse the victims created before that time.

[Giggan]

In response to Caleb's thread, as much as enforcing any evil is an evil in itself, highline finds himself in a unique position that would not necessarily benefit the liberty movement for him to compromise. LEAP only allows current or former law enforcement to speak for the organization for a number of reasons I'm sure that I'm unaware of, but the biggest one is probably that any one of us can speak out against a bad policy. We can only change so much. As an officer, highline's credentials are not questioned. When speaking for HB1623, they can prejudicially dismiss any citizen speaking as a 'stoner', whether or not they use marijuana, but coming from one who enforces the law, at the very least, our opponents will listen.

For example, this should not be construed to imply that I condone Russell's arrest, but Maxfield could have been an a-hole and had Russell's car towed at his expense. Kola said earlier he'd rather deal with a-hole cops, and some of you may like your tyranny at face value, but having a friend in the system can be of some value.

[Russell Kanning]

and if you wait for the legislators to fix the laws ....

you get guys like Sunununu and Bob Barr voting for the Patriot Act ... and then .... fighting against it later.

[Russell Kanning]

There's a very distinct difference between that of a libertarian... We say "We're against the drug war" but what we MEAN is "We think it is a fundimental right to be able to shoot heroine."

what I mean is:
there is no reason for me to forcibly stop someone from taking heroine

[Russell Kanning]

In response to Caleb's thread, as much as enforcing any evil is an evil in itself, highline finds himself in a unique position that would not necessarily benefit the liberty movement for him to compromise. LEAP only allows current or former law enforcement to speak for the organization ...

they take former cops

I can't imagine keeping my job in the evil government ... so I can be a part of some anti-big-government group.

[Ron Helwig]

Finally getting around to reading this thread.

On the subject of cops accepting private certifications in lieu of gooberment drivers licenses, I would hope that they would do so once a private certification is backed up with responsibility. AFAIK, currently a private certification holds as much weight as a napkin with scribbles on it. If the certifier was held at least partially responsible for the actions of those they certify, then the question of whether or not a cop would accept a private certification would be more relevant.

I too want to know if Maxfield believed that Russell was a potentially dangerous driver (regardless of his possessing a government certificate). Does he feel in any way endangered if he's caught "coddling a known lawbreaker" - as would have been a distinct possibility at the crime scene where there were at least two more cops who would have recognized Russell?

[SamIam]

Hey Shane I saw this post, and wanted to add my thoughts.

my views on the "Driver's License" concept. . . .they are NOT a requirement to live in this country, not even to travel.  However, if you want to be in control of a car, you need a license. 

The last statement is factually incorrect. There are millions of people around the world who are in control of a car every day without a license from a US state government. I've read your claim to understand the "gun in the room" concept, and I wonder, do you see it in the last sentence? What's factually true is that the gang known as government requires people operating a motor vehicle to get permission, otherwise the the armed men working for the same company will initiate force to ensure compliance. Now let's remember why government was created:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it

I'll assume you think this is a valid document, and that we are not currently remaining under british rule. So government's container is protecting life liberty and happiness. If somebody wants to travel from one area to another, how does it protect their life liberty or happiness by demanding paperwork and kidnapping them only to lock them into a cage, if they don't have permission?

The courts don't give a rat's ass about anyone's politics, or their opinion of whether they should be required to have a driver's license.  It's the law to have one, and they will put you in jail over it.

Humm, remembering why government's were established, that doesn't seem to be their purview does it? Here's a question I asked the judge and he refused to answer, Shane, Factually what is the Law?

Let me give you the shortcut answer: Laws are commands issued by your gang which you are willing to back up with violence. Now, if you disagreed with the commands, and found them to be morally reprehensible, would you continue to enforce them? If you say No, then realize that they become YOUR commands, because you yourself believe in the commands (law), and are willing to kill another human being (in the extreme) who simply refuses to obey your commands. Think about this carefully, it's not "they" who are putting people in jail for it, it's you.

The retort I get to this is "Mob rule."  Fine, but be honest...if the "mob" agreed with your views you wouldn't have a problem with it.

That's just it, I do have a problem with it, all of it. I do have a problem with using violence to get one's way. I do have a problem with men committing acts of violence and treachery in my name using my money. I do have a problem with with violating the rights of one man for the "need" of another man. Even when I am the benefactor of that "need".

So what options do I have given my belief system (i.e. religion) Shane? Highline? Go back to the Deceleration of Independence. I no longer consent to or wish to be a part of your society, in the same manner and tradition upon which your authority is established, I don't consent to or recognize your authority over me, only your willingness to initiate violence upon me. I'm only in control of me, and if all I can do is create freedom for myself, then so be it. I don't wish to harm others, only to be left alone.

Do you intend to initiate violence upon me, to ensure your society, your views, continue as the "right" ones?

In order for you guys to affect change (change or eliminate certain laws or whatever), you're going to need the support of the general population, or at least a goodly portion of it.  You just don't have the numbers or support for a "revolution" if that's what you're after.

I don't wish for a nicer group of tyrants ruling over me with violence, so I seek evolution. People will one day evolve past the need for governments, and realize dealing with others on a voluntary basis is always the optimal solution.

To think you're just going to rip down the current political structure of this state or the nation is a pipe dream, at least for now.  You should get some people thinking "strategic," which means putting your own reps and senators in the state house, or at least winning many more current ones over to your thinking.

I don't wish to destroy anything, nor do I wish to take part in harming others by working through government. I seek to educate and enlighten people about these ideas. Once they understand them, they too will choose to embrace them, leaving government to those that wish it. The question is, what are you going to do when we leave your system? How far are you willing to go to be right about your beliefs?

[SamIam]

Missed one:

I also see disorganization, lack of leadership and a hodgepodge of actions limited to the tactical level (that's the local stuff, like the open-carry litter pickups, copwatch, puppet shows, "I'm gonna drive on my suspended license"  etc.).  In some ways this is good (it's difficult to smash an organization that is as decentralized as you guys, to put it bluntly).  However, tactical actions alone will not affect much change.  You may attract individuals to join your movement from here and there, you may get individuals from within the hoovernment to join you, or at least agree with you on some levels (as I do).

I'm learning this movement is very different than anything that has happened before, because what we seek, true personal freedom, is an idea that has been obscured for a very long time. This movement won't have organized top down leadership, because that's not what many in it wish to create. Leaders? Oh yes, we have them, Lauren, Mark, Ian, Dave, Russell, David, and others. The movement won't end with a single bullet as it did with MLK. It will take removing 10 leaders, and doing so will only awaken and inspire anther 20. While we may be acting on a local tactical level, we are creating an ever increasing global audience every day through the numerous media outlets also attracted to the Free State. The government has already lost, a voluntary society will come about. The question is really how long do you plan to fight it with indigent righteous? (aka the gun in the room)

Shane, Highline - Thanks again for participating here. It is greatly appreciated by many, myself included. 

[kola]

Russell quoted:

I have had Kola on ignore for a while now (he seemed to be counting heads on who would join him in the violent revolution .

Russell, Can I ask where your idea came from? Kat mentioned this too. I am not a pacifist (and never will be) nor am I a violent person. I do have and will exercise the right to protect myself and loved ones if threatened.

I have stated on this forum (more than once) that I would rather be left alone AND that I go out of my way to avoid police encounters. I pay my taxes, hold a valid DL and reg and I insure my vehicle. I have no interest of "fighting the system" (with weapons, pens or picket signs) but rather choose to ignore it and live my life as I see fit. It is my opinion that the police force (police states) are not going to go away or become more laxed despite any activist pleas. And you can sure as hell bet it will only get worse. The only thing I want to do is put the furthest amount of distance between my life and the corrupt authorities. This once great country is slowly dying, thats a no-brainer. But yes, a violent revolution is a reality as more and more people become disgusted and frustrated with abusive powers of the ever increasing police states. History repeats itself, so who knows huh? My decision to move to the mountains was to escape the madness. I have no interest to participate in ANY type of fighting.(maybe some online "mind-wrestling" but even that becomes tiresome and an energy drainer). I am too damn old for bullshit games and I choose to enjoy my life the best I can, far away from cop schmucks, corrupt political piggies and all the dead-zombied sheeple who can no longer think for themselves and don't give a shit about TRUE liberty.

At this point in my life, I choose to be an observer. I will watch to see what unfolds. The writings on the wall and its not such a matter of what happens... but when it happens.

A bloody revolution huh? Think about it, seriously. Todays commonfolks are outpowered and most can't even open up a pocketknife. "Militia" groups? You saw where they were for Ed Brown. They are nonexistent and the few who may be around are all talk and fluff. Why do you think Bush signed contracts with other countries armed forces? Any type of grassroot uprising will be snuffed out in a second, media-spun and over without a whimper. OTOH, I never underestimate the will of strong people. The blacks are pretty pissed off and so are the Mexicans. I'd put my money on bigcity riots..if there were going to be any types of "revolutions." And btw, I won't be there. I''ll stay tight in my tipi and sip my brandy.     
I am pretty damn sure of what is going to unfold but the only fighting I will be doing is protecting my property and loved ones when threatened. Then again, I could be long dead before the SHTF. So for now, I will enjoy myself, speak my mind freely and avoid bureaucratic bullshit as much as possible.

Kola

[Coconut]

Russell quoted:

I have had Kola on ignore for a while now (he seemed to be counting heads on who would join him in the violent revolution .

Russell, Can I ask where your idea came from?

Probably not if you're on ignore.

[kola]

he reads my posts, coco..they are just too juicy to ignore!  lol

the others play peek-a-boo too.

me too...depending.

Honest Kola

[Kat Kanning]

Russell quoted:

I have had Kola on ignore for a while now (he seemed to be counting heads on who would join him in the violent revolution .

Russell, Can I ask where your idea came from?

Probably not if you're on ignore.

One of our friends got a PM from kola asking if he could be counted on to join the violent revolution.  Sounds like a fed to me.  Plus he's always trying to get on my good side.  I hate that.

[Pat K]

Russell quoted:

I have had Kola on ignore for a while now (he seemed to be counting heads on who would join him in the violent revolution .

Russell, Can I ask where your idea came from?

Probably not if you're on ignore.

One of our friends got a PM from kola asking if he could be counted on to join the violent revolution.  Sounds like a fed to me.  Plus he's always trying to get on my good side.  I hate that.

You have a good side?

[Kat Kanning]

I keep it well hidden