It's a Tad warm

[margomaps]

Cool.  Thanks for the info.  And now the kicker: assuming a plain-Jane installation with no real hiccups, what's your ballpark price for a pellet system installed (including the flue work you described)?   

That's not really possible to do via the Internet.

Oh reeeeeaaaallly?

Boilers cost $6950 + freight (usually $200).  Installation can vary from $2500 to $10,000.

Median installed cost is probably $12,500, but every job is different.

See, that wasn't so hard.   

[MaineShark]

Cool.  Thanks for the info.  And now the kicker: assuming a plain-Jane installation with no real hiccups, what's your ballpark price for a pellet system installed (including the flue work you described)?   

That's not really possible to do via the Internet.

Oh reeeeeaaaallly?

Boilers cost $6950 + freight (usually $200).  Installation can vary from $2500 to $10,000.

Median installed cost is probably $12,500, but every job is different.

See, that wasn't so hard.   

As I said, that's just a median, which could be several thousand too high or too low.  Not to mention that not all situations are really ideal for this technology, so it might not even be applicable, at all.

Joe

[margomaps]

As I said, that's just a median, which could be several thousand too high or too low.  Not to mention that not all situations are really ideal for this technology, so it might not even be applicable, at all.

Understood.  I asked for a ballpark figure, you gave me a median.  Good enough for me!

[Romak]

Don't even waste your time with a pellet stove. You can get wood anywhere but the price of pellets varies greatly from year to year. Wood for the most part remains the same. Besides if you have the right contacts or your own land you can get wood for pretty cheap. You have no control over the price of pellets and you certainly cant make your own so you're at the mercy of others. With wood all you need to do is clean your chimney once or twice a year and clean your combuster if you have one and all is grand. I have tons of contacts with loggers and can always find wood at a good price even in December so just keep that in mind. With the way things are going there are going to be a lot of desperate people come winter. Buy it now.

[MaineShark]

Don't even waste your time with a pellet stove.

A pellet boiler/furnace is not a pellet stove.

You can get wood anywhere but the price of pellets varies greatly from year to year. Wood for the most part remains the same.

Wood has gone up pretty dramatically in the past few years.

With the way things are going there are going to be a lot of desperate people come winter. Buy it now.

I thought that wood was stable, and you could get it anywhere, and there would be no price increase?

I like wood.  I sell wood-fired systems.  I actually make dramatically more money on wood central heating systems than pellet central heating systems, since wood systems are more complex (and, therefore, expensive).  Barring a proper central system thermal storage (which costs a good bit), wood can't last for more than a few hours without loading.  A pellet boiler can go for a week without touching it, then empty the ashes.  After a month, brush the heat exchanger.  Thorough cleaning once per year.

Wood is great, but it is not an automatically-feeding fuel, so it can never hope to replace oil or gas in the long run.

And, by the way, if you make sawdust, you can buy a pellet mill and make your own pellets.

Joe

[Romak]

Guess since I have unlimited access to wood haven't noticed a price increase and we haven't raised our prices a bit for wood that we don't need. I wasn't talking about pellet boiler/furnace I was referring to a pellet stove. I know a buddy of mine that went that route with making his own pellets and his stove didn't operate anywhere near as well as when he used the pellets they recommended, not only that but he voided his warranty by doing so. Also you have to rely on electricity for a pellet stove which doesn't do you any good at all. I was just throwing my two cents in about how much money we saved simply by going with a wood stove and offering cheap good wood for $100 a cord if anyone went that route. I never pretended to know I'm an expert on heating systems.

[mappchik]

I know it can get hot in NH... for about an hour in the afternoon. And then the sun goes down, and the evening breezes blow. Hot is when you can't sleep at 2 a.m. because it's still 90 degrees and 85% humidity.

In 1990, IIRC, we went 14 straight days here when the temperature never dropped below 100F. I don't mean the daily highs were above 100, I mean the lows never got below 100, even at night!

I am very eager to trade Texas summers for NH winters, and I promise to never ever complain of being "hot" in NH.

OYes, while not as bad as Texas, I grew up in Atlanta, GA. When it stays miserably hot, including all night long, for several weeks solid, then you're allowed to complain.

We're back in Atlanta from the family gathering in NC. It was in the high 90's and humid in the mountains -  warmer than Atlanta. I think it dropped to about 80 degrees most nights.

Four generations in the same rambling river house. Lots of icy booze for three of the generations (the cranky ones), and plenty of popsicles for the fourth. I should say 2-1/2 of the generations... half of my generation spent the afternoons in the Broad River with the rugrats.

Once we get moved, I'm looking forward to only a week or two in the 90's each summer, instead of 3-4 months.

[margomaps]

Once we get moved, I'm looking forward to only a week or two in the 90's each summer, instead of 3-4 months.

Today, late in the spring in the Seacoast, it's 94 at noon with a 103 heat index.  So you'll at least have a few days a year to remind you of terrible, horrible home. 

The good news?  Even on those days when it gets ridiculously hot, it usually cools down plenty at night.  These past few days have been in the low/mid 90's with a lot of humidity -- quite disgusting, really -- but it's been down to the mid/upper 60's at night.  That's easily cool enough to make the house feel very comfortable by 9 or 10PM.  By morning the inside and outside temps are about the same, and it stays cool inside (with no A/C) until dinnertime or so.

[Porcupine_in_MA]

Its a little chilly today in Manchester, only 89 right now.

[Riddler]

As I said, that's just a median, which could be several thousand too high or too low.  Not to mention that not all situations are really ideal for this technology, so it might not even be applicable, at all.

Understood.  I asked for a ballpark figure, you gave me a median.  Good enough for me!

go with an outdoor wood boiler, which connects to your indoor unit. (heat & hot water!)
ALL the mess is outdoors; NO chimney fires, or threat of fire in the basement/ smoke/flue gases from downdrafts
you can go 8-12 hrs between loading, depending on house size, insulation, other variables

[MaineShark]

go with an outdoor wood boiler, which connects to your indoor unit. (heat & hot water!)
ALL the mess is outdoors; NO chimney fires, or threat of fire in the basement/ smoke/flue gases from downdrafts
you can go 8-12 hrs between loading, depending on house size, insulation, other variables

Quality outdoor wood boilers are very expensive.  The typical low-end outdoor boilers aren't worth the trouble of putting it in, unless your sole desire is to burn large quantities of junk wood.

Joe

[MaineShark]

I wrote this for the FSP forum, to educate prospective participants, but it seems fitting for this discussion, as well...


Figured I'd share some info here, since it's recently become a rather large topic of discussion, with the skyrocketing price of oil...

Current state averages for various fuels (in their "natural" units):
#1 fuel oil (Kerosene): $4.97 per gallon
#2 fuel oil: $4.53 per gallon
LP gas (Propane): $3.26 per gallon
Natural gas: $1.58 per therm
Electricity: $0.155 per kwh
Wood Pellets: $250 per ton
Wood pellets, bulk: $205 per ton
Cordwood: $195 per cord

Converting to a price per million btu of heat energy, for direct comparison of the raw price:
#1 fuel oil (Kerosene): $36.81
#2 fuel oil: $32.66
LP gas (Propane): $35.69
Natural gas: $15.80
Electricity: $45.43
Wood Pellets: $15.15
Wood pellets, bulk: $12.42
Cordwood: $9.75

Now, factoring in system efficiencies:
#2 oil - high efficiency (83%): $39.35
#2 oil - medium efficiency (75%): $43.55
#2 oil - low efficiency (55%): $59.39
LP - high efficiency (85%): $41.99
LP - medium efficiency (75%): $47.59
LP - low efficiency (55%): $64.90
NG - high efficiency (85%): $18.59
NG - medium efficiency (75%): $21.07
NG - low efficiency (55%): $28.73
Electricity - 98% efficiency: $46.36
Pellets - high efficiency (80%): $18.94
Pellets - low efficiency (70%): $21.65
Pellets - high efficiency, bulk: $15.53
Wood - high efficiency (80%): $12.19
Wood - medium efficiency (60%): $16.25
Wood - low efficiency (40%): $24.38

Most fossil-fuel systems in the state are in the "low" to "medium" ranges that I've given.  Some are lower.  A few are higher.

Pellet efficiency is split into "high," which represents typical boilers and furnaces, and "low," which represents pellet stoves.

"Bulk" pellet pricing is for loose pellets, rather than bagged, delivered to a hopper/silo, and is accurate as of today, from the manufacturer.  The bulk storage system (hopper/silo and feed system to move the fuel to the appliance) obviously is an extra cost during installation of the equipment.  Given the extra investment, I only gave a "high efficiency" number, because a system like that would typically not be installed with a low-efficiency appliance.

Wood efficiencies are typical, but can vary greatly.  Low (40%) represents an average outdoor wood boiler, although some are less than 20% and other "traditional" OWB's can be as high as 60%.  Low also represents a typical woodstove.  Medium represents a high-quality woodstove or a medium-efficiency wood boiler (either a top-end OWB or a conventional indoor boiler).  High represents a wood boiler using gasification technology and a thermal storage tank to maximize efficiency.

Joe

[Lloyd Danforth]

Thanks Joe

[MaineShark]

Also should add that the majority of homes in NH use roughly 100 million to 250 million btus of heat energy during the winter.

Joe