Revoking My Membership in...

[John Edward Mercier]

Cool.  Can I put that in the paper also?

Yes, I just wanted to wait till I actually sent it before saying "Yes".

I sent it in to the local SSA office this morning, requiring a signature and with tracking. I also took a picture of the UPS shipping label, the letter and the social security card going into the envelope so there's documented, visual proof of what was in the letter, that it was sent, the time of sending and that it was recieived.

I used UPS because I like free market solutions rather than government ones. One interesting thing to note was that when I asked for a signature, I was told "This is to a business, it requires a signature". I thought this was an interesting thing to note, though it may simply be that they classify anything non-residential as "business". The Social Security Administration, according to UPS, is a business. Maybe that means there's more chance they'll not balk at my voluntary request to end membership in the program?

I also noticed something... odd. The back of that SSA-3000 form (Commonly called "Social Security Card" ) says "This card is property of the SSA" and then proceeds to say "If you find a card that's not yours." If everyone's card says the same thing, then shouldn't EVERYONE return then, since none of them are "yours"?

I think they list any non-entity under 'business'. The signature is so they can trace 'who' (entity) accepted the package as an agent of the 'business'.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

I really like the letter and the idea man.  Is there any way for a 17 year old to get out of SS while I'm still young?

I'm by no means an expert. I'm just sick of lugging that damn card around, it's such a burden. You can go ahead and send yours in now too if you'd like, or see if they revoke my membership then do the same. I strongly suspect the government people don't "unmark" you once they've got you but we'll see.

You're waaaay too logical for government

Thank you!

I think they list any non-entity under 'business'. The signature is so they can trace 'who' (entity) accepted the package as an agent of the 'business'.

Yeah, I think so too, since it's much easier. Sometimes there's ironic truth in generalizations though.

[John Edward Mercier]

Not really. True businesses have voluntary customers...

The situation of SS is classic. Under the original program the age of qualification was set to the US life expectancy, 65. The first generation could see payments coming to the elderly and thought that this was a good thing... the tax was small... and they would no longer need to worry about orphaning their children or financial survival in old age.

No one at the time had checked to see that life expectancy was getting longer (up from 30 in 1900), or that the future may hold fewer births per woman, thus altering the ratio of taxpayer to beneficiary.

Then the worst happened. In the early 80s, they suggested a correction to the problem of getting over the Boomer Hump... it involved increasing the tax rate. The excess is in  'invested' it in US treasuries. In essence, the federal government was going to 'borrow' the increased tax to be paid back at some future date. The federal government is now 'borrowing' $200 billion to be paid back... and that future date is quickly approaching.

So they are either going to tax at an even higher rate to pay back the taxes they 'invested'... or devalue the dollar so they can afford to pay the original obligation... or just renege on the original obligation.
Knowing Congress... any and all of the three would be a sure bet.

[error]

Congress won't just renege except as a last resort. Those retirees vote and those politicians want those votes. The dollar's getting devalued anyway, so count on tax hikes.

[John Edward Mercier]

Tax hikes could cause the GDP to fall resulting in higher interest rates... to lower interest rates they would need to devalue the US$.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

Finally pulled my camera from Bluebeard...



And, UPS says:

Tracking Number:      1Z 1R1 9E7 03 2306 801 7      
Type:    Package    
Status:    Delivered
Delivered On:    07/14/2008 10:07 A.M.    
Signed By:    JONES    
Location:    FRONT DESK    
Delivered To:    FREDERICK, MD, US    
Shipped/Billed On:    07/11/2008    
Service:    GROUND    
Weight:    .20 Lb

[dalebert]

The other factor they fail to anticipate is how much they encourage the gray market to expand every time they pinch a little tighter.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Thats right!  Mak'in 'Criminals'  out of more people!

[Richie]

I wish you luck!  I can't wait to find out what happens!

I was told that in some states (not Maryland, as far as I know), you can opt out of social security for "religious purposes."  Apparently, all you have to do is fill out a form saying that you believe that your social security number is the mark of the beast.  I have not been able to confirm this, though.

[dalebert]

Apparently, all you have to do is fill out a form saying that you believe that your social security number is the mark of the beast.  I have not been able to confirm this, though.

I couldn't find this on Snopes.com and I only made a cursory glance at what came up from a general Google search, but I know I would not bet any money on this.

[memenode]

Apparently, all you have to do is fill out a form saying that you believe that your social security number is the mark of the beast.

If they would actually allows you to opt out I'd figure that as a pretty good evidence that it actually is not the mark of the beast. The way I understood it, mark of the beast will be forced, but a good christian will rather die than disobey his god.

(I'm not a christian btw, though I was born to an adventist family).

[Josh]

Signed By:    JONES

At least it wasn't Smith. That guy's a major pain in the ass. 

[K. Darien Freeheart]

Yeah. I consider the government people's bureaucracy to be dangerous. It's partly at the root of why I think government is dangerous. If I didn't think them totally inept, I'd say they train to sign packages as "Jones" to avoid liability. But that would require cunning!

[K. Darien Freeheart]

They sent a reply.

Apparently, all you have to do is fill out a form saying that you believe that your social security number is the mark of the beast.  I have not been able to confirm this, though.

Confirmed. The term "mark of the beast" isn't on it though.

They returned their membership card (the one with my name on it), my original letter and a letter. I'll scan the letter when I get home, but it essentially said two things.

1.) Social Security and Medicare are taxes.

2.) If you're not a member of certain religious groups, you can't be exempted.

Included in the envelope is also a form to fill out stating you're a member of a selected religious group but note, there's no list of WHICH groups.

I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this just yet, I'm gonna mull it over. They mentioned "my inquiry" and I was clear, it was not an inquiry, it was a withdraw of consent and my letter will address that, but I'll get the scans on here so you guys can see the actual wording of the response.

[J’raxis 270145]

You're looking for 26 USC 1402(g).

(g)  Members of certain religious faiths
  (1) Exemption
Any individual may file an application (in such form and manner, and with such official, as may be prescribed by regulations under this chapter) for an exemption from the tax imposed by this chapter if he is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof and is an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division by reason of which he is conscientiously opposed to acceptance of the benefits of any private or public insurance which makes payments in the event of death, disability, old-age, or retirement or makes payments toward the cost of, or provides services for, medical care (including the benefits of any insurance system established by the Social Security Act). Such exemption may be granted only if the application contains or is accompanied by—
    (A) such evidence of such individual's membership in, and adherence to the tenets or teachings of, the sect or division thereof as the Secretary may require for purposes of determining such individual's compliance with the preceding sentence, and
    (B) his waiver of all benefits and other payments under titles II and XVIII of the Social Security Act on the basis of his wages and self-employment income as well as all such benefits and other payments to him on the basis of the wages and self-employment income of any other person,
and only if the Commissioner of Social Security finds that—
    (C) such sect or division thereof has the established tenets or teachings referred to in the preceding sentence,
    (D) it is the practice, and has been for a period of time which he deems to be substantial, for members of such sect or division thereof to make provision for their dependent members which in his judgment is reasonable in view of their general level of living, and
    (E) such sect or division thereof has been in existence at all times since December 31, 1950.

§1402(e) is also interesting:—

(e)  Ministers, members of religious orders, and Christian Science practitioners
  (1) Exemption
Subject to paragraph (2), any individual who is
    (A) a duly ordained, commissioned, or licensed minister of a church or a member of a religious order (other than a member of a religious order who has taken a vow of poverty as a member of such order) or
    (B) a Christian Science practitioner, upon filing an application (in such form and manner, and with such official, as may be prescribed by regulations made under this chapter) together with a statement that either he is conscientiously opposed to, or because of religious principles he is opposed to, the acceptance (with respect to services performed by him as such minister, member, or practitioner) of any public insurance which makes payments in the event of death, disability, old age, or retirement or makes payments toward the cost of, or provides services for, medical care (including the benefits of any insurance system established by the Social Security Act) and, in the case of an individual described in subparagraph (A), that he has informed the ordaining, commissioning, or licensing body of the church or order that he is opposed to such insurance, shall receive an exemption from the tax imposed by this chapter with respect to services performed by him as such minister, member, or practitioner. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, an exemption may not be granted to an individual under this subsection if he had filed an effective waiver certificate under this section as it was in effect before its amendment in 1967.
  (2) Verification of application
The Secretary may approve an application for an exemption filed pursuant to paragraph (1) only if the Secretary has verified that the individual applying for the exemption is aware of the grounds on which the individual may receive an exemption pursuant to this subsection and that the individual seeks exemption on such grounds. The Secretary (or the Commissioner of Social Security under an agreement with the Secretary) shall make such verification by such means as prescribed in regulations.
  (3) Time for filing application
Any individual who desires to file an application pursuant to paragraph (1) must file such application on or before whichever of the following dates is later:
    (A) the due date of the return (including any extension thereof) for the second taxable year for which he has net earnings from self-employment (computed without regard to subsections (c)(4) and (c)(5)) of $400 or more, any part of which was derived from the performance of service described in subsection (c)(4) or (c)(5); or
    (B) the due date of the return (including any extension thereof) for his second taxable year ending after 1967.
  (4) Effective date of exemption
An exemption received by an individual pursuant to this subsection shall be effective for the first taxable year for which he has net earnings from self-employment (computed without regard to subsections (c)(4) and (c)(5)) of $400 or more, any part of which was derived from the performance of service described in subsection (c)(4) or (c)(5), and for all succeeding taxable years. An exemption received pursuant to this subsection shall be irrevocable.