Luke12000 is back!

[dalebert]

About time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFP4Qu24f80

[K. Darien Freeheart]

Is there a reason I should know about this person?

[Pat K]

Maybe they should have stopped at 11999.

[Mike Barskey]

I have not watched many of Luk12000's vids, but this one alone might be a reason you should know about this person.

[dalebert]

He's reaching ppl. I've never seen an anarchist blogger achieve so many subscribers so quickly. Maybe it's just because he's really cute, but for whatever reason, he's talking about anarchy reasonably intelligently IMO and a lot of people are paying attention. For that, I give him kudos.

[memenode]

Wow, he reached me alright. That guy is gold. He is marketable, probably, as Dalebert says, because he's "cute", but I think there's more to it. He seems to be willing to circumvent all of the totally irrelevant bulls*it that people get stuck on which makes them miss a more fundamental point and fail to make any real progress. And I think that clears a way for a very powerful idea.

This seems evident from both the video in the OP and one Mike linked to. I agree that too often words have multiple definitions so it's important to define your own words before using them to describe what you want to describe. Otherwise, we're essentially speaking different languages to each other - completely missing each other's points.

I'm gonna keep my eye on this one.

Thanks for the reference!

[John Edward Mercier]

It stunned me that Dale's link, he listed support for representative government and anarchy at the same time. Then in Mike's link, 'Anarchism is a lack of belief in government.'

[dalebert]

It stunned me that Dale's link, he listed support for representative government and anarchy at the same time. Then in Mike's link, 'Anarchism is a lack of belief in government.'

Luke believes in voluntary government which would truly be representative. He doesn't believe in monopoly government, the only kind most people have ever heard of. This is exactly what he's talking about in this video- obsessing over words and their various definitions just for the sake of arguing rather than have a meaningful discussion.

[John Edward Mercier]

Voluntary government makes more sense...
Its hard without further direct discussion. I equate 'representative' with someone representing me or a group, but in a voluntary government I would represent myself. But then again I equate voluntaryism with more a complex arrangement of consensual contracts rather than a government.

[dalebert]

Voluntary government makes more sense...
Its hard without further direct discussion. I equate 'representative' with someone representing me or a group, but in a voluntary government I would represent myself. But then again I equate voluntaryism with more a complex arrangement of consensual contracts rather than a government.

Well, the word government is a bit loaded. There are endless arguments of semantics about whether such organizations would still be called government or are just services. I think what he means by it being representative of you is because you have explicitly chosen them, have signed some terms, and are voluntarily paying for their services, they can legitimately back the claim that they represent you.

[memenode]

Yeah, the trouble is there is no government which is not coercive so we lack any sort of real world reference of such thing as a voluntary government.

So I wouldn't really use the term "government" to describe an alternative which I stand for when advocating the liberty mindset to people, but then again when speaking with someone who already understood what is meant by voluntary representative government there's no problem. That's established by agreeing on a common premise and definitions of words before using them to advocate a point.

[John Edward Mercier]

Agreed. One of the problems that I see during contract disputes is what the contract actually states.
So the term 'government', in the sense that it has power to rule is maybe inappropriate.

I tend to think of associations in this sense. They have by-laws and sometimes limits on membership, but not coerced entry... nor impossible exit.
In the US, entry into the Social Security system is considered voluntary... but parents acting in a custodial manner tend to enter children. And when the children later want out... there doesn't seem to be a means to dissassociate, so its not truly voluntary.

Representative was harder for me to determine as it has two formats... agent (someone you choose to represent you) and custodial (someone that is chosen to represent you). Luke12000 is using the first.

[J’raxis 270145]

... [T]he word government is a bit loaded. There are endless arguments of semantics about whether such organizations would still be called government or are just services.

This is why I like Menno's term authoritarian model of government. It let's people know that we believe there are different models of government, and it's the authoritarian ones that we take issue with.

I wonder if governance would be a better word to use than government. It means essentially the same thing—the way in which things are governed—but it hasn't been associated with and sullied by the concept of The Government and The State in the way that the word government has.

[BillKauffman]

Governance as legitimate agency.

[John Edward Mercier]

Governance is the actual framework and policy, while government is a body politic.
An example is the Non-Aggression Principle can be use as a basis of governance... but no body politic is required.