Russian forces battle Georgians

[Raineyrocks]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7550354.stm


Russian forces battle Georgians


Footage reportedly shows Russian tanks entering South Ossetia

Russian forces are locked in fierce clashes with Georgia inside its breakaway South Ossetia region, reports say, amid fears of all-out war.

Moscow sent armoured units across the border after Georgia moved against Russian-backed separatists.

Russia says 12 of its soldiers are dead, and separatists estimate that 1,400 civilians have died.

Georgia accuses Russia of waging war, and says it has suffered heavy losses in bombing raids, which Russia denies.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili says he is willing to agree an immediate ceasefire

Russian tanks have reportedly reached the northern suburbs of the regional capital, Tskhinvali, and there were conflicting claims about who was in control of the city.

"Now our peacekeepers are waging a fierce battle with regular forces from the Georgian army in the southern region of Tskhinvali," a Russian military official was quoted as saying by Moscow-based news agency, Interfax.

After days of exchanging heavy fire with the separatists, Georgian forces moved on Thursday night to regain control of the region, which has had de facto independence since a war against Georgia that ended in 1992.

   
Georgia and its breakaway regions
I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars. It's impossible to count them now
Lyudmila Ostayeva
Tskhinvali resident

In pictures: Unrest in Georgia
Bitterness turns to conflict

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said Russia was at war with his country.

He told the BBC: "Our troops are attacked by thousands of troops coming in from Russia."

Mr Saakashvili said Georgia had shot down several Russian planes and accused Moscow of bombing Georgian air bases and towns, resulting in the death of 30 military personnel and civilians.

Late on Friday, the Georgian national security council said Mr Saakashvili was poised to declare a state of emergency.

Despite denials from Moscow, the Russian air force has been carrying out air raids in South Ossetia and Georgia itself, says the BBC's Richard Galpin, in Gori, eastern Georgia.

'Ethnic cleansing'

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said he had to act to defend South Ossetia's civilians, most of whom have been given Russian citizenship.

He also voiced anger over the reported fatalities of Russian servicemen in the breakaway province.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov

"We will not allow their deaths to go unpunished," he said. "Those responsible will receive a deserved punishment."

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow had received reports that villages in South Ossetia were being ethnically cleansed.

The BBC's Matthew Collin in Tbilisi says battles continue around Tskhinvali with the sound of explosions, rocket fire and military planes flying overhead.

The regional capital, where inhabitants are said to be sheltering in basements without electricity or phone lines, is reported to be devastated.

   
SOUTH OSSETIA TIMELINE
1991-92 S Ossetia fights war to break away from newly independent Georgia; Russia enforces truce
2004 Mikhail Saakashvili elected Georgian president, promising to recover lost territories
2006 S Ossetians vote for independence in unofficial referendum
April 2008 Russia steps up ties with Abkhazia and South Ossetia
July 2008 Russia admits flying jets over S Ossetia; Russia and Georgia accuse each other of military build-up
7 August 2008 After escalating Georgian-Ossetian clashes, sides agree to ceasefire
8 August 2008 Heavy fighting erupts overnight, Georgian forces close on Tskhinvali

Send us your comments
Q&A: Violence in South Ossetia
In quotes: Strife in Georgia

Fleeing resident Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, told AP news agency: "I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars. It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged."

International Red Cross spokeswoman Anna Nelson said it had received reports that hospitals in Tskhinvali were "overflowing" with casualties.

In other developments:

    * The UN Security Council fails to agree a statement on the crisis, despite holding a second session of talks on Friday evening
    * US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called on Russia to pull its troops out of Georgia and respect its territorial integrity
    * Georgia's president said his country was withdrawing half its contingent of 2,000 troops from Iraq to help deal with the crisis
    * Russia said it would cut all air links with Georgia from midnight on Friday
    * The European security organisation, the OSCE, warned that the fighting in South Ossetia could escalate into a full-scale war
    * The US and the EU were reported to be sending a joint delegation to the region to seek a ceasefire and Nato said it was seriously concerned

[Raineyrocks]

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3848


U.S. Attacks Russia Through Client State Georgia

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, August 8, 2008
   
   
   

Georgian forces, trained and equipped by the Pentagon and the U.S. government, killed 10 Russian peacekeepers early this morning in a provocation attack that has escalated into military conflict, but the subsequent corporate media coverage would have us believe that the U.S. and NATO-backed client state Georgia is a helpless victim, when in actual fact a far more nuanced geopolitical strategy is being played out.

Original reports early this morning detailed how Georgian forces had killed 10 Russian peacekeepers and wounded 30 others, which was the provocation for Russian forces to begin military operations, but the fact that Georgian forces were responsible for starting the conflagration has been completely buried in subsequent media coverage.

"Georgia and the Pentagon cooperate closely," reports MSNBC, "Georgia has a 2,000-strong contingent supporting the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, and Washington provides training and equipment to the Georgian military."

The latest exercise, Immediate Response 2008, which took place last month, involved no less than one thousand U.S. troops working with Georgian troops in a war game scenario.

Moreover, the very "Rose Revolution" that brought the Harvard trained pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvilli to power in 2003 was wholly aided and abetted by the Central Intelligence Agency.

Russian fury at U.S. support for Georgia and Georgia's aspirations of becoming a NATO member have flared regularly in recent months, with tensions also rising following U.S. attempts to place missile defense shield technology in Poland and the Czech Republic, which most observers agree has nothing to do with Iran and is in fact aimed at countering Russian military superiority in the region.

In addition, the pro-Israeli news source DebkaFile reports that Georgian infantry units were "aided by Israeli military advisors" in capturing the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali earlier today.

DebkaFile elaborates on the true geopolitical significance behind today's events.

    DEBKAfile's geopolitical experts note that on the surface level, the Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region.

    The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili's ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

    Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel's oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean.

Former Treasury Secretary under Ronald Reagan, Paul Craig Roberts, told The Alex Jones Show today that the entire scenario smacked of a maneuver on behalf of the Neo-Con faction controlling the White House, led by Dick Cheney. Roberts said the date was precisely picked due to the distraction of the Olympics and Bush being out of the country.

Both Condoleezza Rice and John McCain have today demanded Russia withdraw its forces from Russia immediately.

Meanwhile, the U.S. media networks are seemingly more interested in the complete non-story of John Edwards having an affair, while a conflict that could have devastating and thunderous geopolitical consequences fizzes on the verge of explosion.

As of early Friday evening, Edwards' extramarital shenanigans were dominating CNN and Fox News, while Drudge also afforded the story more prominence that the situation in Georgia, which was also deemed less important than the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics.

One of our readers contributed the following, which explains in detail exactly what is unfolding.

    Most folks on here can not or will not look up the history or facts for themselves ...morons..
    Those who dont learn from history are destined to repeat it..

    In 1992, Georgia was forced to accept a ceasefire to avoid a large scale confrontation with Russia. The government of Georgia and South Ossetian separatists reached an agreement to avoid the use of force against one another, and Georgia pledged not to impose sanctions against South Ossetia.

    A peacekeeping force of Ossetians, Russians and Georgians was established at the time. And late in 1992 the OSCE set up a mission in Georgia to monitor the peacekeeping operation.

    From then, until mid-2004, South Ossetia was generally peaceful.

    In June 2004, tensions began to rise as the Georgian authorities strengthened their efforts against smuggling in the region. Hostage takings, shootouts and occasional bombings left dozens dead and wounded.

    A ceasefire deal was reached on August 13, but it has been repeatedly violated.

    Tensions in the region soared in 2008 and outbreaks of violence became increasingly frequent in the border area.

    Georgia said it was an internal affair as the breakaway republic had never been recognized internationally.

    The Georgian side repeatedly insisted the conflict could be resolved without outside interference.

    However, early on August 8 Georgia launched a massive military offensive to take control of the republic.

    A quote from another Reuters

    At an emergency session of the United Nations on Thursday night, Russia failed to push through a statement that would have called on both sides to stop fighting immediately.
    Council diplomats said a phrase calling on all sides to "renounce the use of force" had been unacceptable to the Georgians, backed by the United States and the Europeans.

    UK Times online:
    Mr Saakashvili, a US-educated lawyer who succeeded Eduard Shevardnadze in 2004 and has since tried to align it more closely to the West, compared the Russian action with the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and appealed to the outside world to intervene.

    "Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory," he told CNN as Russian armour rolled into South Ossetia.

    "It's not about Georgia anymore. It's about America, its values: we are a freedom-loving nation that is right now under attack.

[Raineyrocks]

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3834 

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3847

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3846 


There are more links if you want to read more about it.   I'm really scared, can someone give me their opinion of what they think the outcome will be?  Do you think this will start a war with USA vs. Russia?

I was listening to The Alex Jone's Show and of course he was freaking about it and thinks it will lead to WW(I think he's on 4 or 5 now, funny how I missed WW3).  So anyways he was scaring me and I turned it off but I'd love a rational overview of this if anyone feels like giving me one.  I'm also thinking of all the people getting killed over this right now and it is so sad, geesh how many people have to die over this crap?

[David]

No, there will be no war between the US and Russia.  Big countries do not fight each other directly, because the damage is too great.  But methinks this is the start of a larger proxy war.  That is, the Russians are tired of being routed by the US, and they will use proxy nations to do their dirty work.  If that happens, the cold war is back. 
Another link to the story. 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-strikes-as-georgia-moves-against-rebels-888487.html

[ByronB]

Damn them, I want to get a Russian wife and they keep on screwing it up for me, what the hell maybe I'll have to go for a Georgian wife huh?

[Raineyrocks]

No, there will be no war between the US and Russia.  Big countries do not fight each other directly, because the damage is too great.  But methinks this is the start of a larger proxy war.  That is, the Russians are tired of being routed by the US, and they will use proxy nations to do their dirty work.  If that happens, the cold war is back. 
Another link to the story. 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-strikes-as-georgia-moves-against-rebels-888487.html

Thanks!

[Raineyrocks]

Damn them, I want to get a Russian wife and they keep on screwing it up for me, what the hell maybe I'll have to go for a Georgian wife huh?

:biglaugh:You better hurry up!

[Raineyrocks]

Damn them, I want to get a Russian wife and they keep on screwing it up for me, what the hell maybe I'll have to go for a Georgian wife huh?

Hi Byron!   I'm posting a link here about a secret government meeting only because under the  video is a link for dating Russian women and I thought of you!

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/7041/Collapse_and_Martial_Law_in_the_USA_imminent_/

[BillKauffman]

Thank goodness the Russians aren't fighting the Georgists. It would not be a fair fight.

[lastlady]

Damn them, I want to get a Russian wife and they keep on screwing it up for me, what the hell maybe I'll have to go for a Georgian wife huh?

Hey don't forget about us Ukrainian girls, we're pretty cute too!

[Sam A. Robrin]

maybe I'll have to go for a Georgian wife

Hey don't forget about us Ukrainian girls, we're pretty cute too!

I'm about to burst into a chorus of "Back in the USSR" . . .

[ByronB]

Damn them, I want to get a Russian wife and they keep on screwing it up for me, what the hell maybe I'll have to go for a Georgian wife huh?

Hey don't forget about us Ukrainian girls, we're pretty cute too!

I suppose that wouldn't be a bad compromise at all!

[Pat K]

maybe I'll have to go for a Georgian wife

Hey don't forget about us Ukrainian girls, we're pretty cute too!

I'm about to burst into a chorus of "Back in the USSR" . . .

[Raineyrocks]

I hope this is good news for a change even though plenty of people have died during the attacks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7555858.stm

   

Page last updated at 16:19 GMT, Tuesday, 12 August 2008 17:19 UK
E-mail this to a friend    Printable version
Russia 'ends Georgia operation'
Displaced people from the town of Gori, Georgia (12 August 2008)
Thousands of people have fled Gori in fear of Russian air attacks

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has ordered an end to military operations against Georgia, the Kremlin says.

He told officials that the safety of Russian citizens and peacekeepers in South Ossetia had been restored.

Russia also backed an EU plan to end the five-day-old conflict. Envoys will now try to get Georgian approval.

Each side continues to accuse the other of breaking ceasefire accords, and analysts warn that the two remain far apart on a number of issues.

The conflict began overnight last Thursday, when Russia responded to Georgian military action in South Ossetia.

See map of the region

Russia received heavy criticism on Monday after its troops pushed on from the secessionist territories of Abkhazia and South Ossetia into the towns of Gori in central Georgia and Senaki in the west.

On Tuesday morning there were more reports of fighting near Gori, but witnesses later said that Russian troops appeared to have pulled back from both towns.

   
SIX-POINT PEACE PLAN
No more use of force
Stop all military actions for good
Free access to humanitarian aid
Georgian troops return to their places of permanent deployment
Russian troops to return to pre-conflict positions
International talks about future status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia

Analysis: Russia's endgame
Day-by-day: Georgia-Russia crisis
Georgia's civilian emergency

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, in his current role as EU president, held talks with Mr Medvedev in Moscow for most of the day.

In a joint news conference, they said a six-point peace plan had been agreed by Russia and would now be taken to Georgia.

The deal included a pledge to pull troops on both sides back to their pre-conflict positions, and a plan to begin international discussions about the future status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

If Georgia agrees to the plan, Mr Medvedev said the "path to a gradual normalisation" in South Ossetia was open.

But during the same press conference, Mr Medvedev called Georgian troops "lunatics" and accused Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili of lying over a previous ceasefire agreement.

And just hours earlier, tens of thousands of Georgians gathered in Tbilisi's main square to hear Mr Saakashvili claim that Russia was continuing its "ruthless, heartless destruction" of Georgian citizens.

Neither side's claims could be verified, but analysts point out that the inflamed rhetoric signifies how far away from an agreement they are.

In other developments:

• Nato said Russia's withdrawal announcement was "not enough" and that it deplored the "disproportionate" force used by Moscow.

• President Saakashvili said Georgia would leave the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) - a group which includes most of the former Soviet republics.

• He also announced that Russian peacekeepers in Georgia's other breakaway region, Abkhazia, would now be regarded as an occupying army - ending an agreement in place since 1994.

• Separatist rebels continued to fight against Georgian troops in the Kodori Gorge region of Abkhazia - the only area of Abkhazia still under Georgian military control.

• British oil firm BP closed a key pipeline that runs through Georgia.

'Safety restored'

According to a Kremlin statement, Mr Medvedev told his defence minister and chief of staff that "the goal has been attained".

"I've decided to finish the operation to force the Georgian authorities to peace. The safety of our peacekeeping forces and civilian population has been restored," he said.

   
Russia has invaded a sovereign neighbouring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people
US President George W Bush

Bush's tough talk on Russia

But Mr Medvedev warned that Russia would not tolerate any further Georgian military activity in South Ossetia, saying: "Should centres of resistance or other aggressive attempts arise, you must take the decision to destroy them."

Georgia also remained sceptical, the country's prime minister telling Reuters that troops would remain "mobilised... ready for anything" until a binding agreement was signed between the two countries.

The Russian move followed strong comments from US President George W Bush, in which he spoke directly of concerns that Russia was planning to topple Georgia's pro-Western president.

"Russia has invaded a sovereign neighbouring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people," he said.

"Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st Century."

France's president says the ceasefire is good news

The BBC's diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall says Mr Medvedev's announcement must be seen in the light of the US president's words.

President Bush's language was unusually blunt, she says, and if Russia cares about its relations with the US and Europe, it might have been given pause for thought.

The five-day-old conflict began late on 7 August when Georgian forces bombarded South Ossetia, where a majority of people hold Russian passports.

Russia quickly became involved, bombing targets throughout Georgia and sending troops in to recapture South Ossetia.

Some 100,000 people are estimated to have been displaced by the conflict.

Map of region

   

[Lex]

So, what's the deal with Russia and Ossetia?

I mean, what IS in Ossetia? As far as I know there is nothing there of any value other than some mountains and some sheep.

Why did the Russian government give out passports to Ossetia citizens and pays them retirement benefits? What does Russia get out of all of this?