Ian Questions City of Keene on Taxes

[FTL_Ian]

The video for this is taking longer to render than expected. I'll hope to have it uploaded to either my youtube or FreeKeene's youtube by tomorrow noontime.

The audio recorder in the middle of the room offered much superior recording than the camera's microphone. In case anyone cares

I could use an audio recorder.  What brand and model is yours?

[Coconut]

The video for this is taking longer to render than expected. I'll hope to have it uploaded to either my youtube or FreeKeene's youtube by tomorrow noontime.

The audio recorder in the middle of the room offered much superior recording than the camera's microphone. In case anyone cares

I could use an audio recorder.  What brand and model is yours?

Let's see. Sony IC Recorder ICD SX-57. I got it at circuit city for $150. It's on amazon used for $60. Picks up pretty well. The only complaint I have is the mic input is in an awkward place if I want to mic someone then slip the recorder into their pocket. I just went for the one that claimed "CD quality" since I'd be using it as a backup audio source for weddings and things.

[John Edward Mercier]

Coconut, do you have time to come see the tax collector with me before or after court?  It's been over 45 days and she hasn't answered the questions I sent her.  I'd like to try to get some answers from her on camera.  (I don't imagine this encounter will last too long if she even comes out from whatever hole she'll be hiding in.)

You did so when property was deeded in your name. The deed lists the property as part of the City of Keene.

In the past, several new towns were formed from an original, and recently the Weirs, a section of Laconia, had planned to cede from the city. 

So it may be possible for your property/neighborhood to cede from the City of Keene.

Of course I think the deed also lists the county and State... but at least the City is a start.

[Coconut]

video

[Jitgos]

First of all I really give props to the guy for even sitting down and attempting to answer the questions. Especially being surrounded like that and on camera at the same time. He does seem like a really nice guy that just doesn't quite see yet that he's joined up with a violent gang.

I missed his name, but I'm glad the smiling guy was in there. It made the video bearable because I was laughing the whole time. From the beginning I was thinking I'd be doing the same thing and then the guy brought it up  . The reason I would have been smiling (guessing his reason is the same) is because I'd be thinking try answering this question without admitting you're apart of a violent gang Mr. bureaucrat.

Great job guys.

[Coconut]

I missed his name, but I'm glad the smiling guy was in there. It made the video bearable because I was laughing the whole time. From the beginning I was thinking I'd be doing the same thing and then the guy brought it up  . The reason I would have been smiling (guessing his reason is the same) is because I'd be thinking try answering this question without admitting you're apart of a violent gang Mr. bureaucrat.

Lol. That was Tim. And he has the same issue as I that we smirk at everything for no reason. Luckily he was the one caught as I was hiding behind a camera.

[McDuck]

Great vid Coconut.  I watched the entire vid and also jotted down a lot of thoughts and possible solutions to what was discussed.

I'm too tired to post the bulk of it now, but I believe that Ian is indeed obligated to pay property taxes because he knowingly purchased property that had a 'fee simple' title, instead of an 'allodial' title (which to my knowledge doesn't exist in New Hampshire, yet.) 

Basically, Ian needs a way to CONVERT his 'fee simple' property title, into an 'allodial' property title.

More on that tomorrow. 

[error]

So the King really does own all the land. Ah, modern feudalism.

[McDuck]

My .02, the long version...

The general problem(s): 
Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism doesn't exist in a vacuum.  There is, in point of fact, a supermajority of individuals whether it be through societal norms, common law tradition, state indoctrination, or otherwise which believe in and acknowledge the legitimacy and primacy of the New Hampshire constitution and the government of New Hampshire. 

The gentleman representing the city of Keene was correct in that his (and the city's) job, actions, and authority is solely derived from the New Hampshire legislature, the city's charter, and ultimately the New Hampshire constitution.  Other local bureaucrats, representatives, etc, for obvious reasons, merely reiterate this because they are not in a capacity to unilaterally change or disregard taxation (or other) policy because it is controlled by the state government in Concord, which enjoys rule via the aforementioned supermajority of New Hampshirites  that explicitly or implicitly continue to choose to support it.   

By choosing to reject the norms, values, customs, etc of the supermajority (embodied in the institution known as 'government') in his his original state, and making an independent decision to buy property in a new state in which the government only acknowledges 'fee simple' property titles instead of 'allodial' property titles, Ian has effectively (and unwittingly) allowed himself to be subjugated into a neo-feudalistic system.  Thus in the eyes of the supermajority/government, he and others that choose to buy fee simple property are obligated to either pay their tribute or risk forfeiture.   

For better or worse, this is the current paradigm in New Hampshire.  If Ian or others did not wish to remain subjugated under such a system, they have the liberty to move somewhere else, work within the supermajority's system to end the neo-feudalistic practice of fee simple title, or use force to assert a new allodial title/property right over property that was originally purchased, in good faith, with a fee simple title/property right.

The latter would effectively amount to fraud and theft from the community (Keene/government/supermajority) as they would be losing their feudal/fee simple/taxation/tribute claim to the property, without just compensation. 


Goal: 
The endgame of libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism is the maximization of individual liberty, the reduction in the size of government or the elimination of government entirely, the enforcement of just contracts, and to facilitate the promotion and widespread adoption of libertarian and anarcho-capitalist norms, values, and ideas among the populous, without using force or fraud.     


Partial Remedy:
Since libertarians and anarcho-capitalists currently lack a sufficient supermajority in which to create a positive, non-violent, pro-liberty shift in the current pro-state paradigm of New Hampshire,  libertarians and anarcho-capitalists would be more effective at achieving their mutual aim of ending the neo-feudalistic practice of fee simple property ownership by working through the supermajority's existing system.

The best way to achieve this via the supermajority's existing system would be via the introduction of an 'allodial title' amendment to the NH constitution.  Such an amendment could allow individuals that own their property outright, to convert their 'fee simple" title into an 'allodial' title for a nominal conversion fee.  Additionally, the amendment could also allow a title to retain or be converted back to fee simple status at the discretion of its owner.   

The amendment/conversion fee would be an amicable solution for all parties involved because:

*it would provide transitional revenue for the local government in light of reduced future tax revenue, giving the local government time to streamline processes, maximize efficiency, and reduce its size as it tailors itself to the needs and desires of the marketplace.   

*Allow and ensure that individual sovereigns to own their property 'free and clear' and also give them ability to maximize their personal liberty by being free to contract with local governments or private enterprise for whatever services they deem necessary or desirable.

*Would allow the growth of market alternatives which would have a positive impact on quality of services and choice in communities. 

*Provide for increased job creation and business opportunities throughout the state of New Hampshire. 

*Would allow the supermajority of New Hampshirites to choose, on an individual basis, between which title, and subsequently whether the neo-feudalistic or the free market, best suits the service situation in their respective communities.  The superiority of either would ultimately be proven in the market. 

*Would provide an opportunity for libertarians and anarcho-capitalists to work toward the mutual goal of maximization of individual liberty.

*Would be a "show of good faith" to the supermajority comprised mostly of non-libertarian and non-anarcho-capitalists.

*Would compensate government for losing its fee simple taxation privileges over property held by individuals that was purchased under the old system.

*Would potentially provide a check against any seizers attempted by the Federal government.  Individuals would have absolute discretion and the sole positive right, enumerated in the New Hampshire constitution, over the transfer of ownership of their property.



IMO 

[error]

Just because most people are delusional and violent doesn't mean I should accept their delusions as reality, nor their violence as legitimate.

[McDuck]

Just because most people are delusional and violent doesn't mean I should accept their delusions as reality, nor their violence as legitimate.

I can respect that.  Unfortunately, for Ian, his fee simple private property IS trapped in the state's delusional and violent reality.   

From a cost-benefit analysis, I think that the benefits of converting fee simple/taxable property to allorial/tax free property, transitioning more people to libertarian and anarcho-capitalist views, and curbing the ever growing problem of socialism and statism is worth *limited* individual compromise.  Besides, the state of New Hampshire is small potatoes when the greatest assault on liberty occurs, and is occurring at the Federal and International level.

My proposal would have other net positives as well.  It would encourage other pro-liberty activists to purchase allorial land in New Hampshire, and also break the monopoly that the local and Federal government has on K-12 education and allow people to fight unjust Federal income taxes, without losing their home. 

[error]

I doubt you're going to see "true" allodial title ever offered, as such a thing would amount to a cession of territory by the state, and the state has plenty of reasons to not cede its territory, especially to individuals.

[McDuck]

I doubt you're going to see "true" allodial title ever offered, as such a thing would amount to a cession of territory by the state, and the state has plenty of reasons to not cede its territory, especially to individuals.

I think it comes back to how many activists the FSP can ultimately mobilize in New Hampshire and how many pro-liberty candidates get elected to the New Hampshire legislature.  I think it would be possible to pass true allodial title in New Hampshire, if enough people inside and outside of the state knew the benefits of it. 

Historically, state constitutions are MUCH easier to amend when compared to the US constitution. 

[FTL_Ian]

I don't need to ask permission to own my property.  It's mine.  I paid for it.  It will be much faster to simply stop cooperating and force them into the position of throwing peaceful people into the street or ignoring us.

Besides, error's right.  There's no way they're going to let people "buy out" all future property taxes. 

We don't need a majority to bring about the voluntary society.  You'll see!

[McDuck]

I don't need to ask permission to own my property.  It's mine.  I paid for it.  It will be much faster to simply stop cooperating and force them into the position of throwing peaceful people into the street or ignoring us.

Besides, error's right.  There's no way they're going to let people "buy out" all future property taxes. 

We don't need a majority to bring about the voluntary society.  You'll see!

True, but under the current system, government has acquired a common law/positive/multi-generational right to collect property taxes on private property held in fee simple title status.  If government has no incentive to let people "buy out" (a system where both parties benefit via a settlement), what makes you think that they'll simply ignore non-compliance from a peaceful non-paying minority instead?    

As the Keene bureaucrat inferred, government doesn't recognize your allodial/absolute property right and WILL sell YOUR property to cover any unpaid fee simple tax burden and give you a check for the difference.