Incident that happened on 8/25/08 need advice/help *updates 7/07/09*

[mvpel]

GOOD LUCK!!!  If the hearing is open to the public, I'm sure activists would be interested in attending to witness it, please post the venue if you're open to that.

Please let us know how it turns out!

[Russell Kanning]

I bet you can privately sell your guns to friends today.

[leetninja]

I bet you can privately sell your guns to friends today.

already took care of it 

[leetninja]

GOOD LUCK!!!  If the hearing is open to the public, I'm sure activists would be interested in attending to witness it, please post the venue if you're open to that.

Please let us know how it turns out!

I'm not 100% sure if there will even be a hearing.  It is at superior court for Rockingham County i guess.  i'm not even 100% sure what the plan is yet but my lawyer has one that is all i know.  i am just trying to not stress out about it and think positively about things.  my whole week and now my long weekend has been ruined by this whole ordeal.  hopefully this will be a turning point for the better and maybe even do some good for our little neighborhood.

[Josh]

i'm not even 100% sure what the plan is yet but my lawyer has one that is all i know.

Needing a lawyer sucks, but as long as you feel you must have one, you should really have one that keeps you in the loop. The last thing you need is him surprising you in front of a judge. Or worse, making a deal with the DA on your behalf.

Good luck with everything.

[FTL_Ian]

I'm not a lawyer, this isn't "legal" advice, just suggestions.

what alternatives do i have?  get arrested for failure to surrender my firearm(s) at the direction of a court order?

Have you already signed the govt's paperwork?

You said this earlier:

I'm not a rich man but i will sacrifice everything for my rights and my freedoms.  i am not willing to just let them be taken away.

If you consent to their system (the lawyers swear allegiance to the state, they are the system, too), you allow them to control you.  If you choose to be sovereign, the only things they can do are leave you as a free man or arrest you.  If arrested, do not sign anything and consent to anything.  They'll let you out eventually, and it will have cost them.

If you have a right to guns (your property), you can only void that by your consent.  DON'T CONSENT.

[leetninja]

todays update:

summary: arrrrrrrrrrg

details: went to superior court and waited for my lawyer with my witnesses.  no hearing was granted because it is a civil order and not a family one.  i guess the "rules" are somewhat different.  evidently in civil matters the court doesnt need to hear the other side of a story until they decide they want to hear it.  which is usually around 30 days.  all i envision is a giant ball of red tape making patterns like a screen saver and never running out.   

my lawyer appears to have VERY VERY RIDICULOUSLY AWESOME contacts which makes me very pleased.  he has all kinds of information that i can/will not be discussing at the moment. 

unfortunately they re-issued the order under the correct name but it has not been served as of yet.  probably wont be since i have a life to live and plans made and appointments to be at etc.  he requested a speedy hearing which they granted so instead of waiting a month - i wait until next Monday.  same place and time etc.  possibly with witnesses and such who knows my lawyer is calling me later to advise on things.

fortunately the judge seems to think that the kid is full of it (*yoda* smart guy maybe this judge could be) and didnt require me to turn in any firearms per the order.  UNfortunately from what i have been told - the sheriff can be a jerk and try to ask for them.  since the order doesnt say it - it will be a cold day in hell when i turn anything in voluntarily 

so we wait for monday and continue living life until the hearing at which point this order will be vacated as far as i can see.  ill keep thinking maybe if i think in a positive way - i will get positive results

it could be worse i guess.  i am still very upset that it is even happening to me and could potentially happen to anyone as far as restraining orders etc.  i know video is the answer but carrying around a camera and always being prepared like that for some people isnt the easiest thing in the world. 

the fact is that simply because i have a lawyer this is going to cost me big time.  something i really cant afford but its better than the less appealing alternatives such as watching my 2nd amendment rights just vanish ... i guess this is "fighting the good fight" as they say in some ways.  i just think it is rotten that standing up to children is going to cost me thousands of dollars ... something is very wrong with that.

i think that is about all the excitement for now - if anything else comes to mind or happens ill be back

since i have the day off i am going to head up north and maybe get my girlfriend that shotgun she was looking at

[DigitalWarrior]

Mr Ian, while I respect your "I am outside the system" ethics, I think it has no legal standing and is not very helpful to this person with a very real problem.  

To help:
I would be willing to buy all of your firearms for $1 and then write a short contract offering to sell them to you for $1 at any time you are legally able to own them.

I could buy a pre-paid cell and program it to speed dial porc 411 if you need it.

Since it was on my advice, I will kick in a few dollars to help with lawyer bills.

It sounds like your camera situation is well in hand.

I am still up for an open carry barbecue at your place.

[FTL_Ian]

It is the govt that doesn't have standing to take his guns, unless he goes along with their orders.   

[K. Darien Freeheart]

Mr Ian, while I respect your "I am outside the system" ethics, I think it has no legal standing

I really don't mean to sound rude, but that's the entire point. The people (judge, police, lawyers, et cetera) calling themselves "government" are flesh and blood men and women like you an I. Non-cooperation is about recognizing this.

is not very helpful to this person with a very real problem.

I think prudent use of it could be considered "standing up for your rights" that exist in a legal sense. In this case, it would be a subtle shift. If "surrender your firearms" isn't stated, simply don't do it. The "I have a hunch that they want me to do this" is your enemy in this regard. If they want your property, which you legally have a right to possess, they need to take it, not have it handed to them.

The decision to be flat out disobedient is a personal choice and nobody is condemning anyone for not doing it. It should be more and more clear though, that as long as people accept abuses and intimidation of "the machine" or the police or whatever, it'll keep happening.

Good luck leet, I know this crap can be stressful. Don't forget to find some outlet for the frustration; don't let it drive you batty!

[DigitalWarrior]

If "surrender your firearms" isn't stated, simply don't do it.

Absolutely, which is why I am super duper happy that he got in touch with lawyers.  A lawyer will be able to tell the subtle differences of law.

[leetninja]

To help:
I would be willing to buy all of your firearms for $1 and then write a short contract offering to sell them to you for $1 at any time you are legally able to own them.

I could buy a pre-paid cell and program it to speed dial porc 411 if you need it.

Since it was on my advice, I will kick in a few dollars to help with lawyer bills.

It sounds like your camera situation is well in hand.

I am still up for an open carry barbecue at your place.

this is a perfect example of how/why you guys are awesome. 

my cell is now under control since i have unlimited minutes and people arent calling me like they were the other day.  that is the first time in YEARS that i have had a cellphone die on me.  just way too many callers.  so thats all set

camera - all set

sale of firearms - i transferred all of them a while back to my girlfriend the only one remaining that wasnt transferred was the one i carry.  lawyer is telling me to hold onto it for now.

open carry BBQ - i make awesome burgers  as soon as the dust settles a little bit we should definitely do this.  I have a small yard and limited parking but I think it is do-able.  some taproom tuesday we should see who would come etc.  just have to not offend my nice neighbors while we do it.  im sure if i give them a burger and a beer they will be ok.  everyone seems to have my back on this whole thing   

legal fund - im thinking about it but my lawyer is a nice guy.  he is "impassioned to help" me and has not even so much as mentioned fees or money.  he told me not to worry about it.  i have a decent job and my family will help me im sure but depending on how large this gets i may need some help - maybe a fundraiser event lol

[Josh]

the fact is that simply because i have a lawyer this is going to cost me big time.  something i really cant afford but its better than the less appealing alternatives such as watching my 2nd amendment rights just vanish ... i guess this is "fighting the good fight" as they say in some ways.  i just think it is rotten that standing up to children is going to cost me thousands of dollars ... something is very wrong with that.

Once it's settled, you should look into filing a lawsuit to recover your fees, plus stress etc. I'm not sure on the details of how this all works, but I have a feeling that if you sell it to a lawyer the right way, you might find yourself in a situation where it doesn't cost you anything unless you win. You are absolutely right.... you did nothing wrong, and you should NOT be made to incur a loss for defending yourself.

I'm glad things are looking optimistic for you, and I wish you the best of luck with all the bullshit.

[doobie]

legal fund - im thinking about it but my lawyer is a nice guy.  he is "impassioned to help" me and has not even so much as mentioned fees or money.  he told me not to worry about it.  i have a decent job and my family will help me im sure but depending on how large this gets i may need some help - maybe a fundraiser event lol

When the legal system determines their claims are bogus, you counter sue for legal fees.  Then the lawyer gets their money from the other people.....until they file for bankruptcy.

[leetninja]

so there is a lot of stuff at my house for "Steven Pevin" - i called the Rockingham Sherrif's office and told them I will not open things that are addressed to someone else and left with elastics on my locked gate ... there is also regular postal mail here for "Steven Pevin" and since I have no idea who that is ... since it would be breaking federal law to open this person's mail ... I will wait for my lawyer to tell me what to do with it i guess.   

wonderful.  i took pictures of the envelope too and recorded my phonecall to the sherrif's office.  I will post them as soon as I figure out how ...