Incident that happened on 8/25/08 need advice/help *updates 7/07/09*

[Josh]

Assuming the bureaucrats can get their shit together enough to get your name right, and try again, you can simply say "No. I am not this person. He isn't here right now, but I can give him the papers, or I can give him your contact information. And in the future please don't come on my property without a warrant."

The sheriff won't give you the papers to give to someone else, and no one has to contact the sheriff simply because he left his contact info. It's not a solution, but it can buy you some extra time to talk to lawyers.

And be absolutely sure that A) you aren't home alone next time the sheriff comes, and B) the other person has a video camera!

[J’raxis 270145]

Ok,

i need a lawyer.  better than the unresponsive one i have now. 

Did you try contacting Evan Nappen or Pro-Gun New Hampshire yet? I see mvpel's posting in the thread here; he's with Gun Owners of New Hampshire. There's also Penny Dean.

[FTL_Ian]

Just a suggestion.  Don't answer the door for the cops, no matter what they say.

can i even do that?  the officer was walking around the back of my property when i came to the door

You have no obligation to speak to police or open the door.

[J’raxis 270145]

You also need to talk to a lawyer ASAP about what you can do with your guns while this restraining order remains in effect.

Sell them, and either buy them back after the threat is over, or buy new ones. It'll cost you more to go to court against the State to get them back, once they've been confiscated.

[leetninja]

some things have occurred to me.

first of all.  my father's mis-spelled name.  Where did this lady get this from?  The officers had my name and address from this whole thing.  the only thing i know of that would have my father's name would be a registration of a vehicle.  now not for nothing but how would a civilian get that from a license plate number?  cop?  are these kids being protected and helped by someone?  isnt running a license plate and giving that information to someone against a law maybe?

secondly, i find it a little strange that it was served on a Friday evening.  way after all the courts are closed, that it was from superior court very far away from salem instead of just district down the road, and from what i am being alerted to this kid or his lying sack of a grandmother could call and say i did something when i did not and then i would be arrested and charged with violating a restraining order and sit in a cell until i am called befor ea judge?  add that to the long weekend and if it had been correct name etc and served they could have done just that and i would be stuck in a cell until Tuesday!?!?

with a restraining order what exactly will happen to me once filed?  will they search my house for firearms? will i have to surrender any/all of them?  how can i sell them legally to say my family member or girlfriend if that is the case?

is there anything i can do besides wait for this to come back again!?  i dont have this kid's last name.  there are the police records down at the salem PD but i really dont want to go down there.
can i preemptively file a restraining order against this kid?  i come from MA so i am not used to people being able to get restraining orders so easily. in MA you have to have a relationship (husband/wife girlfriend/boyfriend etc) to be able to get a restraining order.  the restraining order is also based on hearsay from what i can tell ... i imagine it is just them saying "he did this" and it isnt true.  i cant stand the thought of some of these things actually happening.  i mean can people really just claim whatever they want and then get a restraining order based upon that up here!?

also, i now have a camera thanks to DadaOrwell.  Thankfully I had a really good discussion with him.  I now have a better idea on how to prepare myself for speaking with police and how to really not dig myself a hole like i have done already ... hopefully this will get better but this is a downward spiral for me right now.  very bad and very stressful ...

[Dave Ridley]

I just met Leet today.  We talked for about an hour.  while one must be somewhat hesitant to judge, he seems to be a good guy.  I may not be the most sensitive among us but I didn't sense anything that would put up red flags or what not.  I think this is important to say since otherwise all we know of him is what's on his postings and 411 calls. 

[J’raxis 270145]

with a restraining order what exactly will happen to me once filed?  will they search my house for firearms? will i have to surrender any/all of them?  how can i sell them legally to say my family member or girlfriend if that is the case?

See 18 USC 922 (g)(8)(b) for information about whether or not they could confiscate your firearms as a result of this particular restraining order. From discussing this with sjhipple, it sounds like that law only applies to restraining orders between intimate partners or children from such a relationship. Read the law yourself, and if you want to be on the safe side, sell them for now.

As for selling firearms in New Hampshire, read RSAs 159:7–14. Long story short, unless you're in the business of selling firearms, you can sell to someone personally known to you, if you know they can legally own a firearm, without restrictions.

[leetninja]

im not seeing anything in the first link there where it says anything about restraining orders?  am i missing it?

also not seeing that section of sales you mention.  starting to feel like im blind? lol

[J’raxis 270145]

im not seeing anything in the first link there where it says anything about restraining orders?  am i missing it?

also not seeing that section of sales you mention.  starting to feel like im blind? lol

They like making the laws unreadable. It makes it easier to keep you ignorant of the law, all the while enforcing them while reminding you that ignorantia juris non excusat. It's here:—

18 USC 922 (g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
  (8) who is subject to a court order that—
    (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
    (B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
    (C)
      (i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
      (ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury;
  to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

and here:—

159:7 Sales to Felons. – No person shall sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer a pistol, revolver or any other firearm, to a person who has been convicted, in any jurisdiction, of a felony. Whoever violates the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a class B felony.

159:8 License to Sell. – The selectmen of a town and the chief of police of a city may grant licenses, the form of which shall be prescribed by the director of the division of state police, effective for not more than 3 years from date of issue, permitting the licensee to sell at retail pistols and revolvers subject to the following conditions, for breach of any of which the licensee shall be subject to forfeiture:
    I. The business shall be carried on only in the building designated in the license or at any organized sporting show or arms collectors' meeting sponsored by a chartered club or organization.
    II. The license or a copy thereof, certified by the issuing authority, shall be displayed on the premises where it can easily be read.
    III. No pistol, revolver, or other firearm shall be delivered to a purchaser not personally known to the seller or who does not present clear evidence of his identity; nor to a person who has been convicted of a felony.

159:8-a Sales to Nonresidents; Attorney General. – No person holding a license issued under the provisions of RSA 159:8 shall sell a pistol or revolver to a nonresident unless such nonresident has authority under the laws of the state of his residence, to purchase a pistol or revolver in the state of his residence, or unless the director of the division of state police, for good cause shown, has issued to such nonresident a permit for the purchase of a pistol or revolver. The attorney general shall, at least once annually, file with the secretary of state a summary of the laws of each state of the United States relative to the purchase of pistols and revolvers in such states; and a licensee may rely upon such summary in determining if a nonresident offering to purchase a pistol or revolver has authority to make such purchase under the laws of the state of his residence.

159:8-b Penalties. – If a licensee shall in any court be found guilty of a violation of any of the provisions of RSA 159:8-a, such court shall, for each such violation, order the suspension of his license for a period of 3 months, and may, in addition, impose a fine not in excess of $100.

159:9 Record of Sale. – [Repealed 1996, 116:1, I, eff. July 14, 1996.]

159:10 Sale Without License. – Any person who, without being licensed as herein provided, sells, advertises or exposes for sale, or has in his possession with intent to sell, pistols or revolvers shall be guilty of a class B felony if a natural person, or guilty of a felony if any other person.

159:11 False Information. – Any person who, in purchasing or otherwise securing delivery of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm, gives false information or offers false evidence of his identity, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor for the first offense, and be guilty of a class B felony for any subsequent offense.

159:12 Sale to Minors. –
    I. Any person who shall sell, barter, hire, lend or give to any minor any pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
    II. This section shall not apply to:
       (a) Fathers, mothers, grandparents, guardians, administrators or executors who give a revolver to their children or wards or to heirs to an estate.
       (b) Individuals instructing minors in the safe use of firearms during a supervised firearms training program, provided the minor's parent or legal guardian has granted the minor permission to participate in such program.
       (c) Licensed hunters accompanying a minor while lawfully taking wildlife.
       (d) Individuals supervising minors using firearms during a lawful shooting event or activity.

159:13 Changing Marks. – No person shall change, alter, remove or obliterate the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number or other mark of identification on any pistol or revolver. Possession of any such firearms upon which the same shall have been changed, altered, removed or obliterated shall be presumptive evidence that such possessor has changed, altered, removed or obliterated the same. Any person who violates the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

159:14 Exemption. – None of the provisions of this chapter shall prohibit an individual not licensed under the provisions thereof who is not engaged in the business of selling pistols or revolvers from selling a pistol or revolver to a person licensed under this chapter or to a person personally known to him.

A lot of this applies to licensed firearms dealers, which I presume doesn't apply to you. But there are bits and pieces that apply to everyone, so I suggest you read and understand all of these sections.

As other people have said, you should work with your lawyer to come to an understanding of all this crap.

[leetninja]

i emailed penny dean and evan nappen.  left evan a VM and i dont know when they will be able to get back to me.  problem is i dont want to just sit and wait for another order to just show up and then be screwed more than it seems like i already am.  does anyone by chance have a way to reach them other then VM and email?  i hate to bother them on the weekend especially this one but i dont know what to do here. 

either way i will not go along with having some punk placing a bogus restraining order against me.  i will absolutely get it vacated.  i am more concerned with what will show up on my background check and not being able to purchase firearms etc.  i was looking to get a new shotgun and now i feel like i may not be able to because of this.  am i wrong?

while i was out tonight my girlfriend spoke with some neighbors because they wanted to know what they could do to help.  they are all scared that if they say something that these kids will attack them next ... i cant say that i blame them but my view is enough is enough and the adults should be in control of the children and not the other way around. 

the grandmother is filthy rich according to neighbors and i also learned that the black kids are both from dorchester and allegedly in a gang.  maybe they just say that to be "tougher" to the white kids up here from NH or something or just to impress but with the behavior it makes me wonder.  what else explains a kid just rolling up to my house calling me out like that?  just keeps getting better doesnt it!?

[J’raxis 270145]

either way i will not go along with having some punk placing a bogus restraining order against me.  i will absolutely get it vacated.  i am more concerned with what will show up on my background check and not being able to purchase firearms etc.  i was looking to get a new shotgun and now i feel like i may not be able to because of this.  am i wrong?

The only things that can prevent you from purchasing a firearm are those listed on ATF Form 4473. A restraining order request, once vacated, or even a restraining order after it's been rescinded/expired, isn't one of them.

[leetninja]

cant sleep

well it is pretty specific in that form about "are you under a court order restraining you from harassing stalking or threatening YOUR child or an intimate partner or child of such partner?" 

I guess one good thing is that i am NOT this little brat's daddy!!!

[Pat McCotter]

Good thoughts your way leet. Evan or Penny should be able to help with this. Don't let it fry you too much.

[Russell Kanning]

no reason for me not to believe your story ninja .... all that has happened to you has happened before ... welcome to the police state ... where bad people use force against the innocent

[shyfrog]

I spoke with Evan today at the Concord Gun Show and he had not heard anything about it yet.
Don't worry about bothering anyone on a weekend.