Toward private identification systems

[K. Darien Freeheart]

The question I have in this regard is what defining characteristic will be the primary identifier for a private identification system such as this? I've only seen names used in traditional systems thus far, but are born-names of any real value outside mere convenience?

In a very vague sense, identity is no single thing. The purpose of an identity card (or other device) would be to guarantee the validity of multiple criteria (ensure a drinker is 21, for instance, which requires only correlation between appearance and date of birth). More so, the identity might correlate that the person entering a building is authorized by the building owner to be there.

No single metric works. Identical twins have the same DNA and very similar appearance but have differing fingerprint patterns - patterns which can be altered intentionally by various means or unintentionally such as slicing open a finger. Retinal imaging can be thrown off by disease or illness.

My favorite metric, which adapts quite quickly and is largely fault tolerant, is reputation but that's extremely hard to manage large scale and vulnerable to several issues. I'm curious to see what error's thinking up though.

[Russell Kanning]

reputation woks large scale ..... millions are scared of hillary clinton

[Pat McCotter]

Back to the old style of each organization that requires to know who their customers are handle the issue of identification in their own way. Decentralize the identification system.

[John Edward Mercier]

I think they're just looking for a new system that is socially acceptable.

After the release of 'The Shawshank Redemption', the feds realized that the general public would finally understand how to produced false identities... instead of just false driver's licenses.
This is why RealID wished to include digitized permanent copies of the original identification papers within the database. The Feds realized that not just a few of us, but a large number of the population would begin to understand how to falsify birth certificates and use those to get social security numbers to further game the ID systems.

'Gattaca' explored the impossibility of any known technology to truly ID an individual, and the recent 'Rockefeller' case explored the myth that reputation was a firm foundation for ID.

Better mouse traps lead to smarter mice.

[Mike Barskey]

I'd love to help/participate/contribute to creating a voluntary identification system/product/service. I think dependable, voluntary ID is one of the requisites for a free society.

[bigmike]

i've been giving this a great deal of thought lately so i'm glad someone created the topic.

as we move toward further independence as free individuals i can see the acceptance of sworn affidavits signed by notary's becoming increasingly popular.

here in michigan, a notary has the option of verifying they have seen a person's state-issued identification or acknowledging that the person seeking notarization is personally known to the notary, thus negating the need of verification via state-issued identification.

a notary has to be bonded, so the issue of a "trusted source" could easily be addressed.

[John Edward Mercier]

Aren't the 'notaries' part of the system (not private)?

I can see the system taking a turn at the evolutionary point where IDs became the norm.
I seldom use my ID for anything... and my great grandfather never had a birth certificate, SSN, or DL.
So it wasn't that long ago.

[J’raxis 270145]

Aren't the 'notaries' part of the system (not private)?

Yes, a notary is essentially licensed by the State to engage in "notarial acts" that others aren't allowed to engage in. RSA 456-B.

[bigmike]

i understand notaries as part of the system.

what i'm curious to learn is if they have to report to the system. what requirements are made to a notary after one becomes a notary?

if your best friend was a notary that you trusted, and they didn't have to make any reports to the system regarding the documents they notarized who cares if they're part of the system? we could possibly be able to open non-interest bearing checking accounts without a socialist security number, fingerprint or state-issued papers.

that's a victory to me until we figure out a way to have our own private bank.

to truly "pull off" a free state, we will have/might need to get assistance from within, at least in the beginning. i'm not saying it's time for one of us to try to date the girl that prints out the address labels for potential jurors (which i'm willing to do), but one "square" (not trying to offend any notaries) at one position within the system couldn't hurt.

[Mike Barskey]

It's difficult for me to imagine any government related/enforced/regulated position that doesn't have to report to government. I know that notaries are required to keep journals of every transaction (e.g., who signed, what was signed, where was it signed, what was the proof of the signer's ID, how much was charged), so I imagine that they must periodically turn those over to some government bureaucracy. Or perhaps they're just to be kept for audit and/or research purposes after a crime has been committed. If the latter is the case, then it would be easy for a "notary" to enter gibberish or nothing at all into the journal, but their punishment/hassle would come someday.

[bigmike]

to mike in ca:

i understand they might have to, but i don't know if they do.

if they do i would imagine the notary could refuse to furnish records as an act of civil disobedience just as a person refused to file taxes or drive without a state-issued license.

that's why i thought any free-stater that's not ready to go without papers but would like to help the project, could/might be interested in becoming a notary.

[J’raxis 270145]

what i'm curious to learn is if they have to report to the system. what requirements are made to a notary after one becomes a notary?

The law I linked to, RSA 456-B, documents what notaries are required to do. You should probably also browse through the other RSAs to see what laws New Hampshire might have on general business record retention, search warrants and administrative subpoenas, &c..

[KBCraig]

Original document sourcing can be a problem for many people, but that's only really a problem for government ID. Private individuals tend to accept that someone is who they say they are, and will assign reputation to "the person I know as John Doe" no matter what that person's "official" ID says.

My mother is alive and kicking and will turn 75 this year. When my father became disabled in 1984, they had to take some steps to ensure that she could collect his Railroad Retirement upon his death. One of the documents they had to provide was a birth certificate. Problem is, she was born at home in rural Oklahoma in 1933, and never had a birth certificate. Luckily, one of her aunts was still living, who was able to sign an affidavit as to her identity and the time/place/circumstances of her birth. Mom got her first birth certificate c.1986; if not for that aunt, I guess she just wouldn't exist as far as the government was concerned.

Does anyone remember the "liar's paradox" episode of Star Trek? (I am not a Trekkie, btw!) I saw a bureaucrat's head start to spin and smoke when our daughter needed a state ID card to start working. The state's list of acceptable documents to establish identity is both comical and circular. It includes school documents (report cards, student ID card) as acceptable secondary ID -- but when I asked what would happen if we didn't have those things since we home-school, the bureaucrat went into "DOES.... NOT.... COMPUTE.... " mode. And you can't use a SS card, but the SS card requires the same supporting documents to get.

[Ron Helwig]

I remember reading something a while ago, by Sunni Marivallosa(sp?) IIRC, about ID. It went into the difference between the various uses of ID, authentication, verification, validation, etc. It also posited a future where multiple identities could be used. For example, you could have an identity for work and a separate identity for attending bars. There's no reason why your bartender needs to know where you work, or your boss to know where you go clubbing.

I worked on an identity system for the airlines in the late 90s. We used a 2D barcode to encode all the data, including a highly compressed photo of the person or luggage. By putting all the data in the barcode, we didn't need to store it in a database.

By using encryption and signing, a barcode could provide important data without making it available for easy inspection.

Search for "barcode printer" or "thermal barcode printer" to see barcode printers for less than $500. Also, regular printers do work, but are much larger.

[Russell Kanning]

Back to the old style of each organization that requires to know who their customers are handle the issue of identification in their own way. Decentralize the identification system.

Plus .. like people .. they could use mutiple ones

you could start your own "free state" or shire notaries ... they cound use the shire silver die as a stamp

or just use llloyds cambell soup image and say 'lloyd approved'