Coconut will not pay : 9-26-08

[Russell Kanning]

I have a job, money, a business I am trying to run. Me doing this won't change the world. We can't change anything by compromise either though. Nothing will change until it's more important to us than our jobs, money, businesses, and comfort.

It is a series of steps that changes the world .... you thinking about this, and not just paying, is already changing the world ... a little bit.

[Giggan]

They tried to take my license for getting a 'moving violation' under the age of 20, which I would have fought that rather than paying the 100$ 'go away' money if I knew they'd do that. I opted for a hearing before suspension, which most people don't do, because the letter they send you regarding suspension seems hopeless. Upon looking up the law, the gov't didn't have much reason to take my license and the section of law for keeping it seemed in my favor (pretty much said if you're a good driver with a clean record, they shouldn't take it...how arbitrary). I wrote like five pages of legal and Constitutional notes, and when I got there, I was surprised for there to be about 20 other cases in the room. I considered asking to go last cause I had so much left to read (the rest of the kids made no preparation, made no defense, etc). I noticed the magistrate (some prosecutor who works for DMV) was letting everyone go who had a clean record. So when it was my turn, rather than pushing it and reading the whole thing, I made some quick notes. The first thing the guy said to me after I finished was, "Wow, you should be a lawyer". The thing I didn't like is he still put my license on 'warning' or some crap and said if I got a moving violation within the next year I'd definitely lose it for like 60 days, which he did to everyone. I considered that this may not have happened if I had taken the opportunity to make all the legal points I made in my paper.

I considered handing it in, but I knew he wouldn't read it, at the most he'd skim it and toss it. The mood was that you're not supposed to waste time, and everything you do must remain on topic. With enough constitution and legal paradoxes, I'm sure they would have just asked me to end it there and let it go or, ended it there and taken my license. I did not want the latter, so I did not risk it. If you do not have fear of them exacting the maximum sentence just because they don't like you, then I say slowing it down for yourself is key. When they go through the processes they do every day and just expect a quick yes or no out of you, ask them to have patience as you consider, while being careful not to abuse the slow downs. Bringing the procedure down to your pace is key to making the right decisions, and not walking out of court with regrets. Spirit of the stairway is a killer when dealing with cops, judges.

[Coconut]

ok can someone help get me started on the process of obtaining permission to videotape 9/26?

what do I need to do?   remember i want to at least try and comply with all their protocols except the camera panning ban.

The process:

You call and say you're going to be there. The person answering the phone get confused, passes you off to someone else, you say the same thing, get put on hold, until she comes back and says you're all set to show up with a camera.

603-352-2559 - I usually call 7-9 days before.

I'm still so torn. I guess I just need to pick a side and commit to it.

[FTL_Ian]

Or if your feeling brave, ignore the ticket.  If they come get you, question the legitimacy of the charge at that time. 

Some have said that places your person in dishonor.  Better to reply, conditionally accept their offer upon proof of claim and ask to be presented with the original signed instrument obliging you to their statutes.

I also like Sam's approach with the fee schedule.  So many avenues to experiment with!

[FTL_Ian]

We have a new forum at FreeKeene with lots of good links to discussions about sovereignty and interacting with bureaucrats:
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?board=16.0

[FTL_Ian]

As Sam points out, you have to understand the nature and cause of the proceedings against you in order to plead.

is that part of nh law?

I don't know.  Wouldn't know where to look.  One could always try to distance yourself from the CORPORATE PERSON they are accusing and maintaining your sovereign status by asking questions instead of answering them.

[Dave Ridley]

Would the judge be the same guy that handled david krouse's registration disobedience?   do they ban cell phones in there?

[Coconut]

Would the judge be the same guy that handled david krouse's registration disobedience?   do they ban cell phones in there?

It's probably the same judge. I've gotten my phone through both times; they just make you double-check to make sure it's on silent.

[Russell Kanning]

One could always try to distance yourself from the CORPORATE PERSON they are accusing and maintaining your sovereign status by asking questions instead of answering them.

You know they have chopped off the heads of those that claim sovereignty?
You can think you have rights ... you can think you are king ... you can even have been in the thrown for a while ... but that doesn't save you from those that are willing to jail and kill.

[FTL_Ian]

Yeah, but it's been a while.  The govt wasn't too concerned about their legitimacy back then.

Of course it doesn't.  Free men, as you know, must be prepared to go to jail.  Eventually, as you know, they let you out.  Then, hopefully they will come to the conclusion that you and your friends are no longer worth arresting/jailing.

[Vitruvian]

Eventually, as you know, they let you out.

How comforting.

[Russell Kanning]

Yeah, but it's been a while.  The govt wasn't too concerned about their legitimacy back then.

sure it was ... and when the magic of the king being ordained by god ... then off with their heads ... it only happened a few times ... but I was just saying that claiming some stuph doesn't always work
it seems in this current situation decent guys do get let out most of the time ... but some die in jail

[FTL_Ian]

Certainly there are no magic words.  Violent men will be violent men.

That said, these are relatively uncharted waters and very interesting to explore.

If one does not wish to face potential violence, one should just pay up and obey.

[Russell Kanning]

and it is interesting to hear their answers, when force is what really backs it all up

[David]

I agree with Russell.  By all means try what you are comfortable with, Ian, Coconut, or anyone else.  Pick your battles, we can't win them all.  I would encourage you not to pay, but then I am not the one being threatened.