Mark & Gard _ Live Tonight!

[Lloyd Danforth]

FTL is responsible for most of the signups for the FSP in recent years.  This makes Mark more influential  than average. As far as quality of signers is concerned, I'm not sure if this is any different than signing up 'Stoners'  at Hempfest who may not remember being on Boston Common, much less signing a statement of intent the day before.

[FTL_Ian]

What about the people who signed the pledge and forgot about it?  Also fraud?

I see no one has addressed my 950 F1K scenario.  Anyone got a firm moral view on that one?

[Kat Kanning]

Re:  950, it's the same as your other scenario.  YOU set up the conditions of the pledge.  People agreed to those conditions.  Tricking people is fraud.

[FTL_Ian]

Point of clarification: I did not set up the pledge, it was someone in the FSP.

[John]

Look for the planks in ones own eye before judging me too harshly.

We are all imperfect. We can all improve! We (Liberty Lovers) will VERY LIKELY   continue to help each other to reach higher standards.
As we stand at this (as I see it) precipice in human evolution we should stop  - - - for a moment.
Take a nice deep breath; stretch our arms out; let's breath again. Breath Free! Stretch a bit more.
Let's don't take half-breaths. Learn to breath Free. Learn to live toward that higher standard.

NOW - please do not promote any watering down of the/our FSP SOI. Let's continue to encourage all Activist Freedom Lovers to come "HOME!" Eventually it will happen.
I love real Freedom Lovers. But please, let's not confuse the FSP SOI with something it is not.

If 20,000 ACTIVIST Freedom Lovers does not matter to you, please stop talking about signing people up as SOI ACTIVISTS. Stop PRETENDING that any change will happen in that way. OR maybe ask for the recall of member signups.
Just tell folks what is happening here and, ask them to please come Home.

If we stick by the meaning of the pledge we should see Freedom rise within our lifetime!
Water it down folks - and our very children might do unkind things on our graves.

So you've got to ask yourself . . . Let's don't count on luck/nonsense - LET'S ALL GET ACTIVE!
LET"S GET REAL!

[John]

Do what you do flks. It's all good.
Let's just not be Pretenders.

I'm comming up on 50 years on this planet . . . I've seen enough pretenders . . .
I'm comming up on 5 years in NH . . . I've never been happier nor healtier . . .

Freedom is the only healthy way to live.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Jesus John!  You're Old!

[Kat Kanning]

Jesus John! 

Oooh, THAT's why he seemed so full of peace and love. 

[Lloyd Danforth]

Haven't you ever taken a good look at his palms?

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

We are bigger than the FSP now.

[Jim Johnson]

Tempest in a tea pot, nitpicking and back biting...
Remember our greater goal.... the only thing that binds us is a wish for a smaller government.

If you have chosen to be part of this effort, every other of your philosophical concerns must be subverted to this goal, other wise you are also guilty of a fraud.
Signing 20,000 people was an initially stated goal of this project and if you signed on.... you should be dedicated to that goal.

Also... if you require that the people you sign up for the FSP be pure anarchists, you need to be working extra hard to full fill your commitment.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

Also... if you require that the people you sign up for the FSP be pure anarchists, you need to be working extra hard to full fill your commitment.

I don't take issue with anyone wanting smaller government. My issues was with having signers who didn't intend to move when they signed.

Mark explained his position on the air, and I get the impression that he no longer thinks 20,000 would be needed to attain liberty and that his sole focus now is completing the project to not have it fail. Now that he's CLEARLY expressed that, I support it. It was the "we need 20K, so sign up now!" goal that made "sign even if you might possible maybe move even if you don't plan to stay" thing.

Also on the positive side, Mark inspired me to get off my ass.

I shouldn't have said that I would sign-up my baby on air, but I have gotten 6 signers in real life to sign up. Ian like a dozen. Look for the planks in ones own eye before judging me too harshly. I make this crap happen. If everyone that signed got one other person to sign, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

This is true. I'm not in NH yet, and there's a whole side of activism that I didn't even think about here. Turns out there's a local FSP group in my area, and we met yesterday with several very good ways to do some outreach to people in this area, expose the Free State Project to new liberty-lovers and let existing activists know about the FSP (pro-liberty political candidates, for instance that might be willing to support the idea of the FSP vocally, even if they're not willing to move themselves). I've got three very reasonable projects on my plate that should let that happen. I've convinced that the number of people who've never heard of the project is the reason the goal hasn't been met.

[David]

The signing up of names on the list isn't important.  Getting political and economic refugees, (us) to move is. 

In fact, it may be a good idea for the fsp to get rid of the counters and the 20,000 goal/benchmark, and focus on the idea of getting as many here as possible.  The simple idea of concentrating numbers in a relatively small area is a sound idea, the exact number is less important.  The fixation on the numbers is causing too much debate, needlessly. 

The ball is already rolling, due entirely to the early movers and the in state activists that were already here.  You can spend lots of money, time, frustration in the relative short run by moving to NH, and enjoy greater liberty long run, OR you can countinue to run in circles in ohio kalifornia, florida, or any other statist paridise, convincing yourself that your actions are actually doing anything of consequence. 

We have the communication tools already, (this forum and others, porc 411, ect. ) we have media, some of which is financially viable, we have porc houses to make moving easier which is financially viable for the owners of the houses, a few porcs own their own business', we have had and survived scandals which is important because every large and successful movement must be able to handel the inevitable scandals, and we have many, many activists able to hold their own against the statist mouthpieces and politicians. 
Are any of these things where you live? 

[FTL_Ian]

I agree.  The 20,000 number should be done away with.  Those saying the FSP has failed will continue to say so at 20,000.

We know better, and so do those who are moving.

[Mark_FTL]

The signing up of names on the list isn't important.  Getting political and economic refugees, (us) to move is. 

In fact, it may be a good idea for the fsp to get rid of the counters and the 20,000 goal/benchmark, and focus on the idea of getting as many here as possible.  The simple idea of concentrating numbers in a relatively small area is a sound idea, the exact number is less important.  The fixation on the numbers is causing too much debate, needlessly. 

The ball is already rolling, due entirely to the early movers and the in state activists that were already here.  You can spend lots of money, time, frustration in the relative short run by moving to NH, and enjoy greater liberty long run, OR you can countinue to run in circles in ohio kalifornia, florida, or any other statist paridise, convincing yourself that your actions are actually doing anything of consequence. 

We have the communication tools already, (this forum and others, porc 411, ect. ) we have media, some of which is financially viable, we have porc houses to make moving easier which is financially viable for the owners of the houses, a few porcs own their own business', we have had and survived scandals which is important because every large and successful movement must be able to handel the inevitable scandals, and we have many, many activists able to hold their own against the statist mouthpieces and politicians. 
Are any of these things where you live? 

THIS!

In retrospec, and we all know about hindsight, the program should have been get 5k, pick a state and start moving. But since we do have the 20k number, I've been thinking it would be nice to hit it. Maybe not, maybe it would be better to let as many statists believe we failed as possible.