Jehovah's Witnesses = Nonviolent noncooperators?

[Michael Fisher]

I met a very interesting woman today, a Jehovah's Witness.  We talked about the outlaw manicure event, freedom, and her religion for a while.

Apparently, the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is very rebellious, but in a nonviolent way.  They reject patriotism, national service, and most modern religions.  These people were killed during WW2 for refusing to do patriotic things such as the annoying practice of saying "hail Hitler" constantly.

This religion was the result of attempting to create a more accurate translation of the scriptures.  The "New World Translation" bible is a very direct translation with almost no interpretation added to it.

I seem to have a lot in common with her, though I reject some of the religion's main points.  At the end of the conversation, she pointed out this part of the book that I found quite amazing:

"1 Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; 12 because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. 13 On this account take up the complete suit of armor from God, that YOU may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after YOU have done all things thoroughly, to stand firm."

From reading some parts of the book referring to "government", the "system of things", or the "devil", some parts of it seem to speak about nonviolence, noncooperation, and similar concepts.

She also said they practice a lot of volunteerism.

Interesting stuff.  Research is ongoing.

[KBCraig]

Boudreaux heard that the Jee-hovah's Witnesses were working their way through the neighborhood. Being honorably discharged from the Louisiana National Guard, that didn't set well with him, so he made him a plan.

He was sitting on the porch one day, when he spied a woman carrying a satchel up the road. Bourdreaux was ready, and ran into his house, draped his American flag over the back of his couch, and stepped back out just in time to meet the lady.

"Hello, sir! I wonder if I might have a few minutes of your time to..."

"Say no mo', cher! I bin waitin' on you all day! Come in, come in!"

Boudreaux ushered the lady into his front parlor, saluted the American flag draped on his couch, and recited the Pledge of Allegience. "Now, cher... wha chou tink 'bout dat?"

"Well, sir, I don't know what to say. I've been selling Avon for 12 years, and I've never seen anything like it!"

[KBCraig]

This religion was the result of attempting to create a more accurate translation of the scriptures.  The "New World Translation" bible is a very direct translation with almost no interpretation added to it.

Mike, it's very odd to discuss the subtleties of pseudo-Christian sects with a "spiritually sensitive atheist" (my perception of you). 

The JWs are classified as a cult. They rely on extra-Biblical authority over and above the Bible, and their New World translation has a great deal of very subtle "interpretation". The differences, though subtle to a casual observer, are heretical to orthodox Christianity, because they do not consider Jesus fully divine. They believe salvation can only be obtained through their particular sect, rather than directly through faith in Jesus.

The JW view of "hell" is in line with Judaism, in that they consider the soul to be mortal. Death for the "saved" (per JW) means Heaven, while for everyone else, it's just death, and an end to the soul.

Ask your JW contact if Heaven is full. The official JW doctrine is that only 144,000 souls will go to heaven, where they will reign as kings over Earth. Earth will be populated with the rest of the believers who didn't make the cut.

The last two items explain their book entitled, "How to live forever in Paradise on Earth". JWs consider Heaven to already be full of the 144,000, so no one else can attain Heaven. The next best thing is to live eternally on Earth, under the rule of the 144,000.

A bit of Wikipedia and Google research will serve you well.

Kevin

[Lloyd Danforth]

Oh shit!
Senerio:
I'm sitting around enjoying my Saturday morning.  The doorbell rings.  Theres Mike!
_______________________-

A couple of years ago, I make the mistake of answering the doorbell on a Saturday morning.  Theres a couple of older ladies there with their Watchtowers.  Before they can open their mouths, I tell them I have been opening this door, on Saturday mornings for almost 50 years and they don't have anything that I want.  They both smiled, said thank you and left.
A couple of weeks later, they snagged my sister.  Now when they come to the door they ask for Ruth.  Sometimes she's home and sometimes she's not depending on how I feel!

For a couple of years I lived in another town near here.  At the time I was into eating organic nuts and berries, buying them in bulk and storing them.  I was aware that Mormons keep a store of food to last at least one year.
When a couple of well dressed young Mormons showed up at my door one day, I invited them in, offered them water and proceeded to ask them for hints about how I could keep all of my stored food from going bad.  When the admitted they knew nothing about that and began to prostelize, I stopped them and explained that if they didn't know anything about preserving food they had nothing for me.

The next time I'm going to ask for help with my genealogy!

[Michael Fisher]

I seem to have a lot in common with her, though I reject some of the religion's main points.

I'd like to emphasize this part of my original post.? All I need to know about religion I learned on Wikipedia.? ?

Yes, I know this religion resembles a cult, like all others do in my opinion.? This religion is very similar to Mormonism from my experience.  However, their bible is the most accurate translation of the scriptures.

Reading this version, it seems like Jesus was carrying out a nonviolent noncooperation campaign against the government, giving even his life as a sacrifice for their freedom, and he was asking others to copy him and do the same thing, or become even more extreme.? He asks people to do as they are told by god, but not by the authorities.? He seems to preach open defiance of laws not created by god.

The devil is regularly referred to as the system of things, the authorities, or the government.

Very strange stuff.? ???

[Russell Kanning]

You should read the Bible Mike ..... it is just chuck full of good stuff

Jesus kept telling people that his kingdom was not of this earth .... people didn't believe him then and JWs don't really get it now. But he sure did buck the system.

The main problem with JWs is that they love "the law" and have tons of rules to follow .... they don't understand that whatever good we do will never be enough to please God.

[SethCohn]

The JW view of "hell" is in line with Judaism, in that they consider the soul to be mortal. Death for the "saved" (per JW) means Heaven, while for everyone else, it's just death, and an end to the soul.

Not trying to argue the rest of it (frankly the religious discussion is way off topic for this forum, IMHO), but your view of Judaism is incorrect.

Judaism has a variety of views

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism for generic details on Judaism
http://600000men.com/book/heaven.html for one specific belief in afterlife
http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?l=a&offset=4 for another..

[Kat Kanning]

Nothing is off topic for "Endless debate and whining".

[Russell Kanning]

Not trying to argue the rest of it (frankly the religious discussion is way off topic for this forum, IMHO)

how on earth can any discussion on the underground be off topic?

[SethCohn]

Not trying to argue the rest of it (frankly the religious discussion is way off topic for this forum, IMHO)

how on earth can any discussion on the underground be off topic?

It's not on earth, but in heaven we're talking about (grin).

Ok, so I'm wrong, it's not offtopic. (Gee, I'm admiting I'm wrong... oh oh.  Will I ever live it down? (grin))

[Kat Kanning]

(grin))

Is that like a grin with a double chin?

[Russell Kanning]

Ok, so I'm wrong, it's not offtopic. (Gee, I'm admiting I'm wrong... oh oh.? Will I ever live it down? (grin))

'nuff said

[Pat McCotter]

At the seekers gathering at PorcFest the speaker (name evades me right now), a former pastor IIRC, gave his interpretration of Christ's death on the cross being the final example of what the government can do to any of us. We should be trying to live outside the sphere of influence of any government. At least, that is what I got from his talk.

Cheers!
Pat

PS: My JW aunt ostracized two of her children for marrying outside the faith. When one was dying of cancer she relented to be by her side. Not a happy time for my cousin.

[SWilliams]

The next time I'm going to ask for help with my genealogy!

don't do that, you may not like the answer.... (i found out tht Al Gore is my dad's second cousin, and almost puked)

[AlanM]

Almost?