Bill and Ivy arrested 10/10/2008

[Sam A. Robrin]

When in doubt: Disorderly Conduct!  Disturbing the Peace!  Resisting an Officer!  Of course, those are charges used on people they think can't afford lawyers...

In Sinclair Lewis's highly recommended 1935 novel It Can't Happen Here, Senators who didn't vote the way the President wanted were arrested for "inciting to riot."  Then, it was satire--but I'm beginning to believe that that title was slightly ironic . . .

[John Edward Mercier]

I think he was picking on Andrew Jackson... but GW Bush fits the mold.

[dalebert]

I'm starting to wonder if the two pistols were unloaded and if the whole unregistered vehicle thing is related to using out-of-state license plates. The details in this article are different than the other in the onionleader.

I was thinking that too actually. I bet they were unloaded and therefore completely legal. The cops have frequently demonstrated that their understanding of the law is poorer than many of us, and I'm sure Bill is VERY familiar with NH gun law and would have been in compliance so they wouldn't have anything on him.

[Russell Kanning]

and the typical media is prone to many mistakes

[margomaps]

I was thinking that too actually. I bet they were unloaded and therefore completely legal.

The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw this story was also that the guns were not loaded.  What worries me is the definition of loaded.  The law probably does not specifically say that the cartridges must be inside a magazine, and the magazine must be inserted into the pistol in order for the pistol to be considered loaded.  And if it doesn't, you can count on the prosecutor (and perhaps the judge) to try using a loose definition of the term "loaded".  That definition would include a cartridge-laden magazine in close proximity to a pistol.  In some states "loaded" can mean that there are cartridges -- not even magazines per se -- in an unlocked container near a firearm in an unlocked container.  Essentially the term "loaded" has been broadened to mean "could be easily and quickly loaded".  I hope this does not become the case in NH, but we might find out if/when Bill's case goes to trial.

[John Edward Mercier]

Clip has to be loaded and in the firearm to be a violation.
Its taught each year at hunting and OHRV safety courses.

[Little Owl]

The definition of "loaded" as I've seen it means the gun is capable of discharging without adding anything to it.  That way, a semi auto pistol with a loaded magazine may be considered "loaded" even if the chamber is empty.

[shyfrog]

heyyyy...wow. teh definition of "loaded" means, like, something totally different  to me duuuuude. hehehe. Hey, I got the munchies man. Anybody up for a store run?? 

[Kat Kanning]

LOL shyfrog 

[Russell Kanning]

and now the legal system including the bloodsucking lawyers have them .... quite an evil system these government guys have come up with
just like when they shook down the keeniacs on the way home from a party

[MaineShark]

The definition of "loaded" as I've seen it means the gun is capable of discharging without adding anything to it.  That way, a semi auto pistol with a loaded magazine may be considered "loaded" even if the chamber is empty.

Unfortunately, legal definitions often have little or nothing to do with actual reality

In some states, having ammunition within reach of the individual holding the firearm is enough to render that firearm "loaded" under the law.

Joe

[Giggan]

I was told by someone who knows NH laws well, though not a lawyer that since loaded is defined as a gun "with" ammunition implies that the ammo is considered loaded relative to the gun and not the person. Otherwise, it would have read, "and" ammunition.

But the law is what the judge says he wants it to mean.

[Bill St. Clair]

In New York state, a "firearm" is "loaded" if ammunition is in the car, anywhere. The "firearm" is also considered to be in the "possession" of all occupants of the car. Being in "possession" of an unregistered "loaded" "firearm" is an eight-year felony. "firearm" does not include rifles or shotguns (unless they have a short barrel, are "assault weapons", or are fully-automatic). You need a pistol permit to legally purchase or "possess" a "firearm".

[J’raxis 270145]

Ivy has posted a response to all of this over on the NH Tea Party forum. If you have an account there, please take the time to read it, especially people who want to speculate and gossip.

[J’raxis 270145]

I can't seem to get to it, I'm not allowed.

Yeah, the site requires a user account and that you post in the "introduce yourself" board in order to view the other threads.