bringing not quite so liberty-friendly folks to porc functions

[Jared]

is this ever a good idea? i was thinking of asking a gun nut i know if he wants to go to "church" in deerfield. problem is, he's a very typical neo-con mccain guy. do you think bringing people like this is a good idea, or do you think it might just cause a lot of awkwardness?

[K. Darien Freeheart]

Neocons, libertarians and guns? Hrm...

Without knowing about your friend or the church, I'd say if you think he's a standup guy most of the time, he'd probably be fair to bring along. I mean, unless you're routinely hanging out with beligerant, disruptive people it should probably be okay. Perhaps "warning" him that the folks there might have different opinions might not be amiss, and might even make he ask questions rather than opening his mouth and saying something stupid assuming that everyone who uses firearms is a neocon themselves.

There's no reasons respectful people can't chat and enjoy themselves. If you think it would turn not respectful, that's probably a good reason to uninvite the guy, not because he's a neocon.

You can't convince people about liberty if you don't interact with them though.

[Porcupine_in_MA]

is this ever a good idea? i was thinking of asking a gun nut i know if he wants to go to "church" in deerfield. problem is, he's a very typical neo-con mccain guy. do you think bringing people like this is a good idea, or do you think it might just cause a lot of awkwardness?

Sure, bring him along. But what Kevin says is right on. A reminder that not everyone who is a gun fan is necessarily a neo-con is probably a good idea if you know he is outspoken on his views. We're all pretty laid back at church so I doubt it would be an issue.

Without knowing about your friend or the church

He's talking about the private range owned by Ron Helwig and it has been dubbed "church" because it's held on Sunday's.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

He's talking about the private range owned by Ron Helwig and it has been dubbed "church" because it's held on Sunday's.

The first thing that pops into my mind when I see "Deerfield" is Ron's range. I'm just not sure of the atmosphere. I'd be weary of a neocon in, say, Keene's Social Sunday, but I don't know the atmosphere of the event, that's all. It's possible it's almost entirely "apolitical" for lack of a better word. That's all.

[Porcupine_in_MA]

The first thing that pops into my mind when I see "Deerfield" is Ron's range. I'm just not sure of the atmosphere. I'd be weary of a neocon in, say, Keene's Social Sunday, but I don't know the atmosphere of the event, that's all. It's possible it's almost entirely "apolitical" for lack of a better word. That's all.

From the way you posted it, saying "the church" I didn't know if you knew that's what he was talking about.

[error]

Oh, just wait until he runs into The Right Sir Reverend Ryan.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

There's discussion about a Cheshire Church, I'm well versed (no pun intended.... kinda).

[41mag]

Oh, just wait until he runs into The Right Sir Reverend Ryan.

Is Jared's friend coming on the day of the Pink Pistol shoot?    

[Jared]

ok so here's the thing. this person happens to be my father. i love him, but he's a neo-con. i guess my biggest concern is that if i bring him, do you think people will be good and not talk shop with him?

[William]

What's the worst that could happen?... 

[error]

ok so here's the thing. this person happens to be my father. i love him, but he's a neo-con. i guess my biggest concern is that if i bring him, do you think people will be good and not talk shop with him?

Not talk guns at church?!

[Jared]

ok so here's the thing. this person happens to be my father. i love him, but he's a neo-con. i guess my biggest concern is that if i bring him, do you think people will be good and not talk shop with him?

Not talk guns at church?!

by "shop" i mean politics, activism, cd, etc..

[Porcupine_in_MA]

ok so here's the thing. this person happens to be my father. i love him, but he's a neo-con. i guess my biggest concern is that if i bring him, do you think people will be good and not talk shop with him?

Bring him along, I'm sure he'll be fine and everyone will be fine with him. I'll most likely be there, so it'll be good to meet you guys.

[grasshopper]

  As for the "gun nuts"  I know, they are mostly scared of standing up and being counted as an independant or a person that is against the expansion of government into our lives.  If a lot of them see people the thing like they "secretly" do, they might vcome around and get involved.
  I have a friend who's grand parents came from Russia and were Jewish.  There they learned to put up with a lot of crap and when they came to this country, they continued to keep to themselves.  This is a big factor in people getting involved.
  You can not change peoples minds and sometimes I leave my friends company and go home and read when politics come up.  They are hostle to Me because they don't want to be put on a "list" and be looked at by the man.  They like their prisons just fine.
  Bring your Dad, and also have him read this forum and se some Ridley reports.

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

As for the "gun nuts"  I know, they are mostly scared of standing up and being counted as an independent or a person that is against the expansion of government into our lives.

{snip} 

... a friend who's grand parents came from Russia and were Jewish.  There they learned to put up with a lot of crap...

{snip}

... they don't want to be put on a "list" and be looked at by the man.

This is just my personal view and hopefully it can help some gain a little "insight". 

People here are pretty politically savvy and knowledgeable... knowing about a lot of the Executive Orders that have been made and the egregious parts of many of the laws and regulations that have been foisted on the unsuspecting public both on the Federal and State levels. There have been people arrested for merely asking questions of the "authorities" and speaking their minds. While the actions of some brave people here in the area of nonviolent civil disobedience has gotten them arrested, I'm not talking about them. The arrests I'm talking about ended with the people being charged with felonies as "domestic terrorists" by the Feds. With only the pretense of a trial, people have been convicted and stripped of their rights legally (but not lawfully) under the provisions of the PATRIOT I & II Acts. The general population either does not care, does not believe, or does not know the nature of the laws that have been pushed through in the last 7 years. When your Rights can be stripped from you for even appearing to be against the power elite, those who wish to retain their gun ownership may have learned to at least act like they're part of the "mainstream team". Is it any wonder that people who have looked at the current governmental landscape and people who have previously lived under similar governmental political landscapes have quickly adapted to the situation? I know people who survived Germany in the 30s & 40s. I have heard a lot of firsthand stories of what it was like. The climate, the attitude, the political landscape... Just a few years ago, one such person was telling me that it felt like Germany in 1933. Last week this same person told me that it felt like 1936 Germany, but just as the German people didn't see it happening, we just can't seem to see it happening. In the same conversation, I saw the attitude change of these people. They've gone from being openly opposed to the way things are going to only speaking about the situation within the right group of people and even then their tones have become more... hmmmmm... "cautious". They understand that this is serious business and that it can mean life or death.

They like their prisons just fine.

I wouldn't be so quick to "assume" that is true.

Civil Disobedience, public protests, and bringing attention to issues & problems is the right way to go for some people, but it may not (more correctly "is not") the way to go for everyone. Many people have many reasons for supporting the causes of freedom from "behind the scenes". Some people may not be able to afford spending time in jail for civil disobedience. Still others may feel that their support is better conducted "covertly" or through other methods.

Personally, I feel it is unjust to be overly critical of them and their reasons for not using the same methods you do or being openly against the "system" as you are or not being openly supportive of the civil disobedience and methods you or others employ. It may or may not mean they are on your side. You may never know. Hopefully... in some way... at least privately... you can find out.

For those who speak out, our place on the cattle cars is already reserved. It is easy to say or write things such as "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees" when making comments on the Internet or in a barroom, but I would bet that when it comes to the life or death situation against the jackbooted authorities, many who talk with a lot of bravado will sell out their "compatriots" in a nanosecond. People may think that their actions will confirm their resolve, but how many will truly take the choice of being "taken out by the chemical sheds and shot" rather than rat out others?

Sometimes, it is simply best to keep your associations with other like-minded people... private.