Porcs illegally searched in Marlow, NH

[Lumpy]

I called at around 8pm today and spoke to some random person about obtaining a copy of the dash camera video. They ended up calling me back, which I missed, so I returned the call, to find out that "the camera doesn't work and hasn't for the past 6 months". I am not convinced and will continue to pursue the matter.

That may be true, but it's not acceptable, particularly when the professionalism of this one cop is in question. We should be pressuring them to get it fixed, just for starters.

Lumpy, I kind of wish you hadn't said this happens elsewhere but you were hoping not in NH. I hate for them to look at this as if it's standard. It's not. Yes, it happens obviously, but it's not supposed to and it IS the kind of thing that can result in lawsuits. They should be aware of that.

I know Dale.  After I said it I was instantly regretful.  These people who don't understand that government is such a brutal force, or feel unconsciously fearful of governmental force so much that they turn a blind eye to truth, well...  yes, that s how they will hear it.  I wish I'd have not said it that way either.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  At least there was a call put in about it.  Did others call?  I sure hoe so.  If this happens to one, it certainly happens to more than one...  who is next?  Me?  You?  (Not you Dale and Tim and company)

[dalebert]

I still appreciate your call. This is Monday morning quarterbacking. Wait, did I say that right? I'm so clueless about sports.

[FTL_Ian]

I wonder if he'd have tazed you with no backup around.  4 to 1 odds would make him very cautious.

I understand Tim's response.  Any of us might have responded in exactly the same way.  We're all trained to comply.  It's difficult to break the indoctrination and it takes practice.  When the pressure is on, it's not always simple to process your options.

Keeping in mind the principles of interacting with potentially violent bureaucrats should help us all:

• Record the scene on video, audio, porc411, or any combo of the three.  Announce your recording upon the bureaucrat's approach.  Even if you have no cel signal, consider bluffing, "Hello officer, this conversation is being recorded and broadcast on the internet."  Betcha that will change his demeanor right up front.  If he objects, claiming that is illegal or that he doesn't consent, inform him that you "intend no disrespect", but if he wishes to avoid being recorded, he should leave, otherwise as you are in public he is consenting by remaining in the vicinity of the microphone.
• Keep your hands visible.  These guys are either scared of you hurting them or they are worse, looking for an excuse to hurt you.  Don't give them the opportunity.
• Questions are the most powerful thing you can do in an interaction with any bureaucrat.  Questioning keeps you in the "master" role and prevents you from revealing info.  It also turns the tables on them, as they are used to sheep answering just any question they ask.
• If ordered to do something, make sure they realize what they are doing.  I believe this is a paraphrase of Dave Ridley's line, "Are you going to hurt me if I don't?"  (Or if you're feeling particularly ballsy, try "Is that an order?  I'll happily fill your order but you will become liable for a bill in the amount of $XXX.  Do you still with to place your order?")
• "Am I free to go?", "Am I being detained" - Commit to memory and utilize.
• If you are coerced into signing something, sign something like "Under Duress, All Rights Reserved", just above your signature.
• Don't speak their language.  Do not "understand".  These are people who talk in a language that sounds like English, but it's not.  It's legalese.  Their words can mean things different from the common understandings of them.  If you don't believe me, pick up a law dictionary and see for yourself.  Unless you know the legal definitions of the words they use, you cannot "understand" them.  Remember, they are ALWAYS operating under legal capacity when working as bureaucrats. (An exception to this might be when "couch enforcer" Carl Patten requested I talk with him "man to man" and "off the record".)  When a bureaucrat says something to you then asks if you "understand", always say "No I don't understand.", then ask a question.  If you need an easy question to ask, pick a word he use and ask about it, "No, I don't understand.  What do you mean by, XXXXXX?"
• Don't accept their offers.  Avoid signing if you can without getting hurt (see above).  Do not voluntarily take their paperwork from them.  They will probably touch you with it and let it fall inside your car or on the ground.  They have done their job, but at least you didn't consent.
• Don't let them associate you with their process.  Patten said to me in court recently, "Did you decide when you want to have your trial?".  He scurried off when I began turning my audio recorder, but I was going to say to him, "It's not my trial, it's yours.  You're the one demanding it."  We are not seeking conflict, they are.  We only want peace and harmony.  We want to discuss and ask questions.  We do not consent to their process.

That is a distillation of all of what I consider the best info on this topic that I have absorbed over the years.  We have learned; now we must test, modify, test, modify...


Critique?  Thoughts?  Additions?

Cross posted to the Free Keene Forum: http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=176.msg1198#msg1198

[Coconut]

I wonder if he'd have tazed you with no backup around. 

Just because no other Marlow cops exist doesn't mean he can't get in touch with County, State, or even nearby towns.

[AntonLee]

I wonder if he'd have tazed you with no backup around.  4 to 1 odds would make him very cautious.

I understand Tim's response.  Any of us might have responded in exactly the same way.  We're all trained to comply.  It's difficult to break the indoctrination and it takes practice.  When the pressure is on, it's not always simple to process your options.

Keeping in mind the principles of interacting with potentially violent bureaucrats should help us all:
... etc etc

I think people are silly not to copy this directly to your personal blogs and point it to freekeene.com

Thanks for the concise, straight to the point tips for all people dwelling within this country. 

[Sam A. Robrin]

Would it make sense to hold regular workshops on dealing with Our Exalted Overlords, just so the constant practice would help it become automatic?  Similar programs existed back in the days of the anti-Vietnam demonstrations, and were quite helpful.

[Pat K]

I still appreciate your call. This is Monday morning quarterbacking. Wait, did I say that right? I'm so clueless about sports.

You are correct in your sports analogy . 

[dalebert]

You are correct in your sports analogy . 

Football is the one where it's pointy on both ends, right?

[MaineShark]

Record the scene on video, audio, porc411, or any combo of the three.  Announce your recording upon the bureaucrat's approach.  Even if you have no cel signal, consider bluffing, "Hello officer, this conversation is being recorded and broadcast on the internet."  Betcha that will change his demeanor right up front.  If he objects, claiming that is illegal or that he doesn't consent, inform him that you "intend no disrespect", but if he wishes to avoid being recorded, he should leave, otherwise as you are in public he is consenting by remaining in the vicinity of the microphone.

In that vein, add a microphone to your dash.  The type that usually goes up on the headliner for a built-in phone.  But on the dash, towards the window, where it is very visible to someone standing near the door (practice the "officer position" with a friend to get it lined up in a good spot).

You can connect it to a built-in recording system.  Or you can just use it as a dummy.  They won't know.  And they can't try and confiscate it from you, or "accidentally" knock it out of your hand, like they can with a cell phone.

Bonus points if you install a small red LED (a blinking one, for added visibility) on or near the microphone.

Make it obvious in their minds that they are being recorded, and that they cannot readily stop you from recording them.

For those with a bit larger budget, there are replacement rearview mirrors which include a camera and recording system.

Joe

[Lumpy]

I called at around 8pm today and spoke to some random person about obtaining a copy of the dash camera video. They ended up calling me back, which I missed, so I returned the call, to find out that "the camera doesn't work and hasn't for the past 6 months". I am not convinced and will continue to pursue the matter.

Has anyone ever responded on this camera issue?

[dalebert]

I've been meaning to follow up on this. I was told they'd get back to me and they were very polite and seemed to be trying to be helpful at the time but it's been a while. The camera issue is unacceptable. They say they've gotten very few complaints about this officer but I'm going to explain to them why that is not surprising as most people are too intimidated to complain about police.

[MaineShark]

The camera issue is unacceptable.

Next time you see me, remind me to tell you about camera issues...

Joe

[Tom Sawyer]

...they were very polite and seemed to be trying to be helpful...

It is hard to know if they are really being nice or just using it as a tactic to disarm you.

Repeatedly I have seen this approach used. I believing in watching what someone does, verses listening to what they say.

[dalebert]

I believing in watching what someone does, verses listening to what they say.

Good advice.

[Dave Ridley]

it would be cool to set up drills at liberty forum and porcfest...so we can train on how to deal with them.