Open Carry and FSP members discussed at NH election official training

[Nat F]

Thursday I attended training held by the NH Secretary of State.  (material online at http://nhvotes.sos.nh.gov/)  I thought people here might be interested to know that open carry and free staters were brought up near the end of this training.  Someone asked about open carry at polling places and the representative from the Secretary of State's office made it clear that NH had very strong constitutional provisions that allow it.  He then made mention of the Manchester open carry incidents and the closed park hours litter pickups specifically, mentioning that some people, mostly free staters, tended to push open carry a little too much.  A couple of comments along the lines of "free staters are an unusual bunch" were made then the subject changed to a totally different area.

Anyway I found it interesting that free staters have had enough of an impact on the state that they were mentioned during a training session for election officials.  I'm not sure if it's a good or bad thing that the people in the room had no idea that I'm a friend of the FSP.  I'm fairly certain the subject wouldn't have come up there at least and I'm not sure if I even would have been asked to serve as an assistant moderator.

-Nat

[margomaps]

He then made mention of the Manchester open carry incidents and the closed park hours litter pickups specifically, mentioning that some people, mostly free staters, tended to push open carry a little too much.

I wonder what he means.  Does he mean that, in his opinion, some people are "pushing the envelope" of the open carry law a little too far, possibly doing something illegal?  Or that in his opinion, some people are "just a little too exuberant" about open carry and thus open carry ostentatiously just for the sake of drawing attention to themselves or the open carry movement?  If it's the former case, maybe it was a dig at Bill Walker due to his recent arrest.  Otherwise I can't think of a single example where someone "pushed the envelope" -- they simply exercised their rights.  If it's the latter case, it sounds a bit like a bureaucrat who doesn't appreciate "mere mortals" getting all uppity and flaunting their freedoms in such a visible manner.

Perhaps there's another interpretation that would better explain his statements.  Anyone want to take a shot at it?

A couple of comments along the lines of "free staters are an unusual bunch" were made then the subject changed to a totally different area.

Well, I guess those comments are accurate.  It is unusual for people to actively stand up for their rights I suppose.

[Nat F]

I wonder what he means.  Does he mean that, in his opinion, some people are "pushing the envelope" of the open carry law a little too far, possibly doing something illegal?  Or that in his opinion, some people are "just a little too exuberant" about open carry and thus open carry ostentatiously just for the sake of drawing attention to themselves or the open carry movement?  If it's the former case, maybe it was a dig at Bill Walker due to his recent arrest.  Otherwise I can't think of a single example where someone "pushed the envelope" -- they simply exercised their rights.  If it's the latter case, it sounds a bit like a bureaucrat who doesn't appreciate "mere mortals" getting all uppity and flaunting their freedoms in such a visible manner.

My interpretation was that he thought what they were doing was legal but that it was not something that should be done.  I don't think he was talking about Bill Walker's arrest, he specifically mentioned a "9pm" Manchester park litter pick up and also claimed some people were walking around with a rifle slung over their back in order to attract attention.

-Nat

[margomaps]

My interpretation was that he thought what they were doing was legal but that it was not something that should be done.  I don't think he was talking about Bill Walker's arrest, he specifically mentioned a "9pm" Manchester park litter pick up and also claimed some people were walking around with a rifle slung over their back in order to attract attention.

Then I guess he doesn't like mere mortals to go about 'unnecessarily' flaunting their rights...as if they own the place.      

[les nessman]

  It doesnt take a PhD to figure out if thugs wanted to throw an election they might rob the polling equipment.
Open carry at the polls is a great idea.  The equipment doesnt protect itself.

[Kat Kanning]

No one's been open carrying rifles, have they?

[Russell Kanning]

you know those flaming open carry nuts

[J’raxis 270145]

Someone asked about open carry at polling places and the representative from the Secretary of State's office made it clear that NH had very strong constitutional provisions that allow it. 

This includes schools used as polling places, regardless of the "Gun Free School Zone" crap?

[J’raxis 270145]

No one's been open carrying rifles, have they?

Not here, not yet, but in Idaho:—

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=15775.0

[Nat F]

  It doesnt take a PhD to figure out if thugs wanted to throw an election they might rob the polling equipment.
Open carry at the polls is a great idea.  The equipment doesnt protect itself.

Yep, the equipment doesn't protect itself.  I protect it.  Part of my duties at the polls will be to stand within arms reach of the ballot boxes.

-Nat

[KBCraig]

Someone asked about open carry at polling places and the representative from the Secretary of State's office made it clear that NH had very strong constitutional provisions that allow it. 

This includes schools used as polling places, regardless of the "Gun Free School Zone" crap?

NH has no such crap. The federal version is so weak that it's only used as a bargaining chip when someone is caught dealing crack to kindergarteners.

[J’raxis 270145]

Someone asked about open carry at polling places and the representative from the Secretary of State's office made it clear that NH had very strong constitutional provisions that allow it. 

This includes schools used as polling places, regardless of the "Gun Free School Zone" crap?

NH has no such crap. The federal version is so weak that it's only used as a bargaining chip when someone is caught dealing crack to kindergarteners.

Here's what PGNH has to say about it:—

(2) Title 18, United State Code, Section 922, paragraph (q) is the Gun Free School Zones Act. You can't have a gun in, on the grounds of, or within 1,000 feet of the property line of, an elementary or secondary school, whether public or private. (Note that this doesn't include colleges or universities.)

18 USC 922 (q) includes exemptions for private property (i.e., you're OK if your house is next to a school), for police officers on duty, for school-approved programs, and for unloaded guns in locked containers or locked gun racks. There's also an exemption for people holding carry licenses, but only if state law requires that "before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license." Unfortunately, New Hampshire state law (RSA 159:6) arguably does NOT make the cut, in part because town selectmen and city mayors can issue carry licenses, and they're not "law enforcement authorities." But even if your carry license was issued by a police chief, it doesn't protect you, because our state law doesn't meet the requirements of the federal law.

This federal "Gun Free School Zones Act" is unpopular, and some people prefer to believe that New Hampshire's carry licenses provide an exemption, despite the above analysis. Further, nobody in New Hampshire has been arrested or prosecuted on the basis of this federal law. Still, you have to ask yourself if you want to be the test case.

So, to summarize: state law prohibits you from carrying in courtrooms and courthouses; federal law, though controversial, "technically" puts you at risk of arrest and prosecution for carrying in federal buildings (including post offices) and in or near elementary or secondary schools.

[Nat F]

Someone asked about open carry at polling places and the representative from the Secretary of State's office made it clear that NH had very strong constitutional provisions that allow it. 

This includes schools used as polling places, regardless of the "Gun Free School Zone" crap?

NH has no such crap. The federal version is so weak that it's only used as a bargaining chip when someone is caught dealing crack to kindergarteners.

Here's what PGNH has to say about it:—

(2) Title 18, United State Code, Section 922, paragraph (q) is the Gun Free School Zones Act. You can't have a gun in, on the grounds of, or within 1,000 feet of the property line of, an elementary or secondary school, whether public or private. (Note that this doesn't include colleges or universities.)
[removed text]

All I can add is that when the topic came up I asked about private property rights as well as federal law and the fact that it was a polling place "overrode" the other concerns and made open carry legal according to Bud Fitch, state deputy attorney general.  That's still not very reassuring but it is what he said.

-Nat