Ready to start seriously considering a move -

[SpeedPhreak]

For those that don't my current situation - I am a registered Sex Offender because I had a consensual relationship with a young woman not of "legal" age in my state.

Update from my last post months ago - The state requires 1 of 2 conditions to be met in order to move back home with your family - I have met both & I am currently not even allowed to have pictures of my daughter let alone see her.  The last time I held her was the day I went to jail April 06.  I tried to take my case before the judge & he wouldn't even hear it... my lawyer won't do anything else.  So I need to move - from what I understand, having met the 2nd requirement, I can not be denied a move.

I could, in theory, move next week.  I need someone to "sponsor" me in that I need to have an approved job lined up & a place to live as well as a willing & waiting probation department.  Ideally this would be a single male or a couple w/out children (due to CO rules).  I can't have access to weapons, drugs, or alcohol (you can have weapons & alcohol I just can't get to them).  My family would probably stay in CO until I moved out as we have our houses to think about & I want to burden someone as little as possible.

Once I am established w/a probation officer I should be able to move into my own place - I am thinking a month at most.

That's just theory because there would still be the paperwork end, the interstate compact, etc...  Realistically we are looking at Spring if this is the route we go.

Knowing CO & my county in particular is one of the most restrictive in the nation regarding SOs I would assume once I am established I could be with my family under the laws of NH. (anyone?)

My girlfriend & I still want to move outside the country & have actually found places I can go & be safe (a guy with a similar case as mine in my group just ran to **** where he has family - he is free & clear) - we just don't have the money & she is very timid about it (understandable)... & if for some reason my info is wrong & I am extradited back to the US I would spend a good 20 to life in prison.

We have looked at Puerto Rico (I would still be on probation - but their age of consent laws would have meant I would not have ever been arrested therefore my life would hopefully be a lot more simple there), Southern Colorado (a lot of our problems would end if we were in another county), & Maine.  Maine - because land is so cheap - I have found large chunks of forest for $500/acre some even less.  To a lesser extent - Texas, for the same reason as ME & because from what I have been told my particular case & the amount of brainwas err... therapy I have done (far exceeding TX mandates) would allow a pretty "normal" life.

NH is still at the top of my list for US states solely for the FSP.  I found 70 acres in Carroll county for $40k - so if anyone has info on that area regarding covenants, codes, wells, jobs, etc???

I have learned a lot of new job skills as a result of being locked out of a lot of jobs - I can weld, I have a CDL class A permit, I am about 300hrs away from being able to become a certified traffic control supervisor (guy who puts cones on the road & ruins everyones day) - a $60k/yr job with our city or state ($11/hr w/the private company I work for now).

We still have our apparel business but it has gone to sh!t because of this case - but we own everything & are debt free with it.  I am a killer bartender but am not allowed to work in retail or the rest/bar industry in CO, I can teach Martial Arts (I assume only to adults)... but these are details to discuss later.

I would like to know exactly what NH rules/restrictions are for SOs, if anyone is willing to be my "sponsor", where to find cheap land that can support a homestead, small for profit agriculture, & has owner financing (assuming I don't buy the 70ac mentioned), etc...

So I would like to open a discussion on what, when, where, who regarding all the details... I don't have regular access to the internet so please understand if I don't respond for a lengthy time.

[J’raxis 270145]

Welcome back.

Sex offender registration is covered under RSA 651-B here. RSA 632-A, listed on the same page, is where most of the specific sex offenses are laid out, if that's important.

If you remember, I and a handful of other local activists run the Citizens United to Reevaluate Sex Offender Registries group. (The site's a bit out of date, but once the new legislative season picks up, it will begin to be updated again.) We're also now officially the New Hampshire chapter of Reform Sex Offender Laws.

I wasn't entirely clear on this "sponsor" thing—does that mean actually have to live with someone here, that you can't get your own place as soon as you get here?

[Josh]

The Sex Offender laws are miserable nationwide. They do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality (is that a word?).

I would strongly recommend against Maine. The land is cheap, but the taxes are higher than any other state, and the average income is pretty dismal. Also, the land you're thinking of would not likely be very safe, given the remoteness, and abundance of inbred hicks.

Hopefully someone can help you out in NH. Good Luck!

[lastlady]

Welcome back.

Sex offender registration is covered under RSA 651-B here. RSA 632-A, listed on the same page, is where most of the specific sex offenses are laid out, if that's important.

If you remember, I and a handful of other local activists run the Citizens United to Reevaluate Sex Offender Registries group. (The site's a bit out of date, but once the new legislative season picks up, it will begin to be updated again.) We're also now officially the New Hampshire chapter of Reform Sex Offender Laws.

I wasn't entirely clear on this "sponsor" thing—does that mean actually have to live with someone here, that you can't get your own place as soon as you get here?

Just signed and read many stories. Glad to see people trying to change this and thanks for posting it here. I read the story of a man who went out to his backyard porch to feed his dog in the nude and two neighbor girls saw him and then begins a horror story of what occurred to him and his wife. 

[DigitalWarrior]

Please do not come here.  I say again, Please do not come here.  Especially if you love the cause of the FSP and Limited Government.

Quite frankly, I do not want the FSP to help sex offenders move here.  I cannot imagine a better way to get the people here to be INCREDIBLY HOSTILE to us.

Tomorrow's Newspaper Article:

Free State Project arranging Sex Offender Moves to NH

In order to reach their stated goal of moving 20,000 government hating, law-detesting people to New Hampshire, they are reaching out to sex offenders.  On one Free-State Project related website, a man who was convicted of committing sexual assault on a minor was organizing help to move to New Hampshire.  ___________, a mother of a young child who lives in Manchester, near Porcupine row on elm street says, "I don't know why they want to bring baby rapists to attack children!  They should be marginalized politically!".  The police chief has said that there is nothing that he can do legally to prevent the Free State Project from organizing an effort to move sex offenders to New Hampshire, but that when the 80% of offenders who recommit their crimes on children here, they will be caught and arrested.

In fact, there is an organized effort by members of the FSP to start a chapter of an organization called "Reform Sex Offender Laws Now!", which opposes "vindictive" punishment of child rapists and is concerned with the shame the rapists feel.  _____________ of Protect our babies from kiddy diddlers, says "They do not have the right to talk about shame, they should imagine the shame that young victims feel after the vicious attacks of these predators.  These attacks haunt children for the rest of their lives, and the predator DARES to be concerned about vindictiveness.  These predators are evil and I cannot believe the Free State Project is supporting them".

____________ of the FSP denies having an official program to assist Child Predators moving to New Hampshire.  He did not mention "unofficial programs".

A. Hack
Newspaper Reporter and Sensationalist

See also:
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080203/NEWS/80203007

[DigitalWarrior]

They do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality

Minors cannot legally consent.  As a result all such crimes are without consent.

Intent and Malice are considered in the guilty/not-guilty verdict of the individual charges.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

In the famous words of Johnny Storm - "Flame on!"

[J’raxis 270145]

Please do not come here.  I say again, Please do not come here.  Especially if you love the cause of the FSP and Limited Government.

Quite frankly, I do not want the FSP to help sex offenders move here.  I cannot imagine a better way to get the people here to be INCREDIBLY HOSTILE to us.

The "sex offense" in question was a statutory rape situation, and as much a victimless/consensual crime as smoking pot or failing to register one's vehicle with the government. I for one apply the principle of non-aggression consistently, without regard to public perception of the particular consensual act in question.

And quite frankly I don't care what you want or whom you want the FSP to help, nor are you or anyone else in a position to tell someone not to move here.

They do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality

Minors cannot legally consent.  As a result all such crimes are without consent.

State-defined bullshit. 2+2=5, too.

But, this debate over "minors" and "consent" has been had before, so I won't repeat myself. You can find it in the archives on the various forums.

[J’raxis 270145]

For those that don't my current situation - I am a registered Sex Offender because I had a consensual relationship with a young woman not of "legal" age in my state. ...

Just ignore DigitalWarrior and people like him. I'm sure you're used to dealing with such douchebaggery, and worse, from the general population, so it should be no surprise that there are some people here on these forums who are going to behave in the same way.

What's important is that there are an awful lot of people here who don't think and act like that, and do reject the concept of victimless/consensual "crimes" consistently.

[ColdSoul]

While I am all for protecting children, I think it's dumb to make laws to prevent human nature when everything is consensual.

After the age of 13 or 14 (the age of puberty for most children) I think children should be able to consent if they wish to, so there should be no way the state can claim for a child they were raped if they wish to say they consented. Maybe there should be a test a person could take that demonstates that they are able to understand right and wrong, and how there choices effect them? I can tell you I was able to consent at the age of 8 or 9 because I understood things and was treated like a mini-adult and not a child. I was given a car at the age of 6 years old by my father who passed away. I was asked if I would like to sell the car to purchase a computer (back in 1989) and I thought it out logically that the car would possibly be no good by that age, and that even if it was it was it wasn't usable by me for another 8 years while a computer would be usable now. I am pretty sure that demonstates the ability to consent, or not to a exchange in thinking things through.

In California the law is that if the people are within 2 years age of eachother it is not against the law. So if a 16 year old boy or girl gets with a 18 year old boy or girl it's perfectly legal. But if a 15 and a 18 get together it is illegal, yet in High School you have 15 and 18 year olds going to school together, do you not expect there to be some time of engagement in sexual activities due to this?

Rape=Rape plain and simple... (Normally anyone under the age of 13 is unable to consent to anything as they do not have the understanding of life and death, and real, or unreal in most cases. And in the case of sexual activity, until puberty it would not be "wanted" so there would never be consent.)

Statutory rape is the government deciding what is acceptable/unacceptable when 2 people agree to something, it's the same thing as prostitution being illegal it's the "morals" of most of society being pushed upon the masses for the "greater good". These same people see nothing wrong with water torture, or people being imprisoned without charges or a trial so they don't get to decide what is right or wrong because there "morales" are not up to my standard.

That being said I think rapists should be locked up and the key thrown away, especially kiddie (I.E. prepuberty) rapists but not people who act in a consensual encounter.

I wasn't in Speeds shoes so I am not going to judge him, but if it was a consensual encounter and the young lady was over the age of 13 and had reached puberty then I would support him in standing up to have his sex offender status removed. People who pee out in public get sex offender status in some places, so I would be a sex offender because I once peed outside a business when I was like 10 years old.

[SpeedPhreak]

Welcome back.

Sex offender registration is covered under RSA 651-B here. RSA 632-A, listed on the same page, is where most of the specific sex offenses are laid out, if that's important.

If you remember, I and a handful of other local activists run the Citizens United to Reevaluate Sex Offender Registries group. (The site's a bit out of date, but once the new legislative season picks up, it will begin to be updated again.) We're also now officially the New Hampshire chapter of Reform Sex Offender Laws.

I wasn't entirely clear on this "sponsor" thing—does that mean actually have to live with someone here, that you can't get your own place as soon as you get here?

Thanks J

yes the "sponsor" thing - the way my lawyer describes it at my current "stage" - is that I would have to have a job lined up & have a "reason" for going... he explained that the easiest reason would be because I am going to live w/my family/friend/biz partner to work at this or that.

once I am accepted into NH I would then be governed by the NH probation rules - I am assuming I can live alone/w/my family (which is what we have been trying to do for over a year now... but will read up on the statutes for sure (not going to jump out of the fry pan into the fire).

Thanks for the tip on Maine... NH is #1 for the sole fact of the FSP.  The other locations are simply alternatives due to cost & family conditions.

Most of my savings are gone - this has cost us 20k & rising at the rate of about 1300/mo if you factor in having to pay separate living expenses for me not being able to live in our house, the rest of my "obligations" & quarterly polygraphs... & as mentioned my business is pretty much gone (down to grossing approx 12k/yr)... so regardless of a sponsor/reason - I would probably need this kind of help anyway.

I understand it can take several months to actually do the paperwork - but can be pushed threw in a month... depends on how well they like you - they don't like me... I challenge AOC, legality, morality, etc... regularly (a reason my lawyer thinks I am not home yet regardless of my "progress")... so if I had this person today & submitted the paperwork tomorrow it would be anywhere from Dec till June... no way of telling.

For those that don't my current situation - I am a registered Sex Offender because I had a consensual relationship with a young woman not of "legal" age in my state. ...

Just ignore DigitalWarrior and people like him. I'm sure you're used to dealing with such douchebaggery, and worse, from the general population, so it should be no surprise that there are some people here on these forums who are going to behave in the same way.

What's important is that there are an awful lot of people here who don't think and act like that, and do reject the concept of victimless/consensual "crimes" consistently.

WOW DW - that is honestly the 2nd most hostile response I've had since all of this.  Everyone that I explain the situation too is behind me regardless of their political view. The only person that was worse was a guy I worked with - we had an argument - he got on line & found my info & told everyone at the shop trying to get me fired - everyone at the shop said they were behind me & he was eventually "shunned" into quitting - even his brother who works there is behind me.  Former students & their parents still want me to be their instructor (even though I can't) & extended family on all sides still want me in their lives & their children's- go figure.

However to each his own.

In the mean time I have turned my home/shop (I currently live in a warehouse) into a meeting place & show liberty DVDs to people about once a month.  This is to friends & their friends but I was thinking of running an ad on craigslist or something.

Open for discussion/suggestion/ideas.

[SpeedPhreak]

While I am all for protecting children, I think it's dumb to make laws to prevent human nature when everything is consensual.

After the age of 13 or 14 (the age of puberty for most children) I think children should be able to consent if they wish to, so there should be no way the state can claim for a child they were raped if they wish to say they consented. Maybe there should be a test a person could take that demonstates that they are able to understand right and wrong, and how there choices effect them? I can tell you I was able to consent at the age of 8 or 9 because I understood things and was treated like a mini-adult and not a child. I was given a car at the age of 6 years old by my father who passed away. I was asked if I would like to sell the car to purchase a computer (back in 1989) and I thought it out logically that the car would possibly be no good by that age, and that even if it was it was it wasn't usable by me for another 8 years while a computer would be usable now. I am pretty sure that demonstates the ability to consent, or not to a exchange in thinking things through.

In California the law is that if the people are within 2 years age of eachother it is not against the law. So if a 16 year old boy or girl gets with a 18 year old boy or girl it's perfectly legal. But if a 15 and a 18 get together it is illegal, yet in High School you have 15 and 18 year olds going to school together, do you not expect there to be some time of engagement in sexual activities due to this?

Rape=Rape plain and simple... (Normally anyone under the age of 13 is unable to consent to anything as they do not have the understanding of life and death, and real, or unreal in most cases. And in the case of sexual activity, until puberty it would not be "wanted" so there would never be consent.)

Statutory rape is the government deciding what is acceptable/unacceptable when 2 people agree to something, it's the same thing as prostitution being illegal it's the "morals" of most of society being pushed upon the masses for the "greater good". These same people see nothing wrong with water torture, or people being imprisoned without charges or a trial so they don't get to decide what is right or wrong because there "morales" are not up to my standard.

That being said I think rapists should be locked up and the key thrown away, especially kiddie (I.E. prepuberty) rapists but not people who act in a consensual encounter.

I wasn't in Speeds shoes so I am not going to judge him, but if it was a consensual encounter and the young lady was over the age of 13 and had reached puberty then I would support him in standing up to have his sex offender status removed. People who pee out in public get sex offender status in some places, so I would be a sex offender because I once peed outside a business when I was like 10 years old.

I agree & thank you too.

I won't go into particulars in this thread as they are posted else where.

[lastlady]

Thank you J'raxis for always saying what I would if I could write and articulate myself as well as you.

People hear sex offender and they go crazy. Some don't consider that some "sex offenders" have not even done anything with a minor just accused for a variety of reasons, with no recourse to defend themselves. Like the man's story I referred above. I love being nude personally, but in this fascist police state I could be labelled a sex offender with the wrong set of circumstances.

I have a 19 year old pretty messed up half brother. He lied about his age to a girl and looked older too because he was balding in his teens. To make a long story short this woman, 6 years older than him, had sex got pregnant and had his child all before he reached the age of consent (18). Luckily my family didn't try to harm her for doing this and we understood that it was not rape in anyway shape or form. If the sexes were reversed this could have been someone who's life was ruined.

Think about it, a man is 18 and has sex with his 16 years old girlfriend. This is not a sex offender. Women can be very mature in their late teens and have relationships with older men, many young girls lie about their age. Sex offenders would be for those adults who abuse and rape young children and each set of circumstances should be considered. Also some kids make things up and lie too. I have nothing but contempt for those who hurt and sexually abuse children but many innocent people are being victimized by the state this must end.

[lastlady]

They do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality

Minors cannot legally consent.  As a result all such crimes are without consent.

Intent and Malice are considered in the guilty/not-guilty verdict of the individual charges.

Excuse me but I beg to differ when I was 17, 16, 15 and so on I was having consenting relationships.

[DigitalWarrior]

First, I did not tell him not to move here.  I begged him not to move here as part of the FSP because of the potential PR disaster.  I have the right to beg and plead for what I perceive to be the good of the FSP.  I was not being hostile.  I was illustrating what the terrible reporter named "A. Hack" might write as an inflammatory article.

Statutory rape law is a result of both the poor reasoning of children and the power imbalance between adults and children.  I find it hard to believe that you are seriously saying that a 13 year old girl has the reasoning ability to risk death or parenthood.  STDs can be a death sentence.  Pregnancy is life-altering to say the least.  Value judgments change over time, and children make WEIRD WEIRD WEIRD "decisions".  In addition the possible power imbalance between an adult and a child is substantial.  It strikes me to be similar to a mugger saying "he willingly handed over his wallet".  Children can be intimidated, threatened, or even peer pressured into activities that are very dangerous. 


She is 13

Of course if a kid lies about his/her age, then the person had no intent and should be found innocent by a jury.  Prostitution is an agreement between adults. 

I was not speaking about this man's criminal act.  Maybe it would be better if the age of consent, through our representatives in the legislature, was changed in the law to better reflect reality, but there certainly is a period where children are children and not adults.  That said I have heard of a few instances where the laws are responsible for terrible convictions. 

I still would plead that he please not move here.