Ready to start seriously considering a move -

[DigitalWarrior]

They do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality

Minors cannot legally consent.  As a result all such crimes are without consent.

Intent and Malice are considered in the guilty/not-guilty verdict of the individual charges.

Excuse me but I beg to differ when I was 17, 16, 15 and so on I was having consenting relationships.

In all honesty, I think that an argument could be made that if a person is allowed to pilot 1000 pounds of metal at 65 miles an hour, they can make life and death decisions.  At 15, I doubt any significant fraction of your peers could be said to make life altering decisions well.

That said, you could not legally consent (depending on where you lived and the circumstances). 

None of that matters of course in the court of public opinion.  It would be bad if the FSP and sex offenders were tied together in peoples minds.  It sure would motivate me not to talk about my FSP affiliation during my next State legislature run.

[SpeedPhreak]

Sorry to exagerate your post DW.

I feel you make a good point on the PR point & can sympathize with your feelings.  I agree w/force/coercion/& POSSIBLE power inbalance & I assure you & anyone else that this is not an issue in MY case (& I have discovery materials to prove this).

I would really like to avoid getting off topic w/my intentions of this post & will gladly debate/argue/flame in a seperate post... so I will simply say there should be NO age of consent beyond puberty - everyone is different & every situation is different, every case needs to be handled individually.  Some 13yo can consent some 20yo can't.  But the scientific fact remains a human body is ready for intercourse after puberty (& if you believe in creation - why would a perfect creator create puberty at 12-16 & not 18?).

If this is a discussion we want to have - please start a seperate post.  Sorry DW - I am moving "somewhere" & NH is at the top of my list until I move to a country where I won't be a "criminal".

[Sam A. Robrin]

Quite frankly, I do not want the FSP to help sex offenders move here.  I cannot imagine a better way to get the people here to be INCREDIBLY HOSTILE to us.

Hate to say it, but this post makes me feel "INCREDIBLY HOSTILE" to you.
If libertarians can't help out the victims of a government gone mad with the intoxication of its own power, who can?  What other compromises and outright hypocrisies are you willing to stoop to as a result of your "delicate sensibilities"?  Possessed of such (I calls 'em as I sees 'em . . .) cowardice, how effective do you think you could be in public office? 

[DigitalWarrior]

As far as moving here, I think that you should know that I have seen our papers go on and on about the menace of child molesters, while naming names and showing faces.  It might be that way everywhere, but I know I have seen it here.

For instance todays Nashua Telegraph:
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081028/NEWS01/310289939

I remember there was one convict who was moving from another state and the papers covered it like flies on shit.

[Romak]

Last Lady if you like being nude so much take a trip down to Hedonism 2 in Jamaica, you'll have the time of your life.

[lastlady]

Last Lady if you like being nude so much take a trip down to Hedonism 2 in Jamaica, you'll have the time of your life.

haha! I was just thinking about where I could spend more time nude with freedom and ease. I live in Los Angeles and as of a few years ago all the public nude beaches went away, have to go out of Los Angeles county to access anything. But if I have the means to go to Jamaica honestly I'd rather be in New Hampshire. Thanks for the thought though..

[error]

Last Lady if you like being nude so much take a trip down to Hedonism 2 in Jamaica, you'll have the time of your life.

haha! I was just thinking about where I could spend more time nude with freedom and ease. I live in Los Angeles and as of a few years ago all the public nude beaches went away, have to go out of Los Angeles county to access anything. But if I have the means to go to Jamaica honestly I'd rather be in New Hampshire. Thanks for the thought though..

You could do it here in NH but it's rather cold. You'll have to have something to keep you warm.

[SpeedPhreak]

As far as moving here, I think that you should know that I have seen our papers go on and on about the menace of child molesters, while naming names and showing faces.  It might be that way everywhere, but I know I have seen it here.

For instance todays Nashua Telegraph:
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081028/NEWS01/310289939

I remember there was one convict who was moving from another state and the papers covered it like flies on shit.

Thanks for the heads up - that is a little more "in your face" than here in CO - they only do that if the victim is truly a child or you are a sexually violent predator.

However I am not too worried about it - I have a pretty thick skin.  Anywhere is going to have challenges - might as well be around people whos views on life are inline with mine.  The most important thing to me is being with my daughter who I haven't seen in almost 2 years for no reason what so ever.

--------------------

Nevermind on Bartlett - the property I found is really nice - but has no road access or easments... only a hiking trail.  It is actually the north face of Bartlett Mountain.  Which would be way cool - but I don't have that luxury.

I am looking for acreage where I can have a little livestock (sheep, goat, bison [in NH?], chickens) a large organic garden, 100% off grid, etc etc.  Here in CO that will take a min of about 50 ac.  Also I would like some elevation - somewhere where the water table is at least 50 ft deep.  $1000k or less per acre w/seller financing. - so if anyone knows of a parcel??

I am still interested in doing some of my original ideas (co-op, communal living, etc..) posted in other threads... just need the right property.

[dalebert]

Statutory rape law is a result of both the poor reasoning of children and the power imbalance between adults and children.  I find it hard to believe that you are seriously saying that a 13 year old girl has the reasoning ability to risk death or parenthood.  STDs can be a death sentence.  Pregnancy is life-altering to say the least.  Value judgments change over time, and children make WEIRD WEIRD WEIRD "decisions".  In addition the possible power imbalance between an adult and a child is substantial.  It strikes me to be similar to a mugger saying "he willingly handed over his wallet".  Children can be intimidated, threatened, or even peer pressured into activities that are very dangerous. 

I understand completely. I used to be a hardcore about this subject for this very reason much like you come across right now. Obviously I'm a voluntaryist and I don't believe in arbitrary lines drawn by bureaucrats, but the basic principle you speak of here is still true. Meanwhile we do live in a world where bureaucrats draw arbitrary lines and enforce them with threats of violence. Even in that world, there should be a BIG difference between a true child molestation and the much smaller crime of having sex with someone slightly under the legal age of consent but still clearly beyond puberty. Common sense needs to be applied. In many countries there will be repercussions, but much less severe than how a child molestation case is treated. I don't think such a case where no child is involved deserves some kind of permanent label of sex offender along with all the ostracism that goes with it.

It sounds to me like that common sense was in fact applied in SpeedPhreak's case by his friends and co-workers which inclines me to think his case was blown all out of proportion by the hysteria. He seems to have had a lapse in judgment and is paying for that, but I don't see justification for the kind of ostracism that you are suggesting.

[J’raxis 270145]

I have a 19 year old pretty messed up half brother. He lied about his age to a girl and looked older too because he was balding in his teens. To make a long story short this woman, 6 years older than him, had sex got pregnant and had his child all before he reached the age of consent (18). Luckily my family didn't try to harm her for doing this and we understood that it was not rape in anyway shape or form. If the sexes were reversed this could have been someone who's life was ruined.

And nowadays she'd get in as much trouble as if it were reversed. Have you noticed how over the past couple years or so, there's been this sudden surge in news stories about female teachers having relationships with male students, and similar nonsense? The moral panic used to just be about creepy old dudes and little girls/boys, but all of a sudden the panic has strangely switched genders.

I'm usually not much into "conspiracy theories" without concrete evidence, but I am seriously beginning to believe this is all part of the ongoing plan by the State to destroy natural human relationships and alienate everyone from one another. (Read John Taylor Gatto's books if you don't know what I'm talking about. He talks about how the public school systems, child labor laws, secularization of society, &c., all serve this purpose. It's my theory that the whole pedophile panic, and a few other things, tie into it, too.)

[J’raxis 270145]

She is 13

This girl is 13, too.

http://www.wftv.com/news/16348047/detail.html

[J’raxis 270145]

Thought this would be useful to cross-post back here:—

I have changed my mind, and would like to say that I was wrong for suggesting that we not assist people convicted or accused of certain criminal acts.  I have two reasons

First, as was pointed out to me, it is a slippery slope and how long until they in all seriousness declare the lot of us "Terrorists".  While assisting some people might be turned around on us, it would be morally wrong to avoid the right action because it could be misinterpreted.  To paraphrase Brother Kipling "If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, yours is the Earth and everything that's in it and - which is more - you'll be a Man".  I appreciate everyone that took the time to correct me.

Second, kind of like the legal principal of safe harbor for computer networks, we do not concern ourselves with filtering content, because if we did it in one case, we would have to do it in all.  The FSP is a transportation medium, which hopefully carries far more good than bad...

Digital "belly full of humble pie" Warrior

[DigitalWarrior]

I started the other thread so that this one could be used to discuss the move rather than all the crap law vs justice stuff, as the OP asked.

[lastlady]

Last Lady if you like being nude so much take a trip down to Hedonism 2 in Jamaica, you'll have the time of your life.

haha! I was just thinking about where I could spend more time nude with freedom and ease. I live in Los Angeles and as of a few years ago all the public nude beaches went away, have to go out of Los Angeles county to access anything. But if I have the means to go to Jamaica honestly I'd rather be in New Hampshire. Thanks for the thought though..

You could do it here in NH but it's rather cold. You'll have to have something to keep you warm.

Well when I'm in the Free State I will hopefully have something to keep me warm. 

[J’raxis 270145]

I started the other thread so that this one could be used to discuss the move rather than all the crap law vs justice stuff, as the OP asked.

I know. I cross-posted your "I have changed my mind ..." post to hopefully stave off further debate and flaming, too.