I was banned from Murphy's Taproom

[Lloyd Danforth]

Lots of places add 15% gratuity to groups of 8 or more.

The first and only time this happened to me I called the cops and tried to get the manager arrested.

Wow. That seems harsh to me. I'm not trying to be harsh with you, and I'm glad you acted on your principles, but, assuming the restaurant informed you of that in advance (I'm assuming!), then there is no theft and I would not initiate the aggression of cops.

But I do despise that tipping custom!

It was for a Brunch and the first we knew of it was when we got the Bill.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Mike, I think you're an awesome activist and I hope the discussion in this thread helps you and others grow in their understanding of this strange custom. As someone who is very frugal, tipping used to bother me, however it no longer does.  If one cannot afford to tip, then one cannot afford to eat out.  Your issue with tipping however, doesn't seem to be related to finances, but is simply an objection to the custom.  I am not sure if the tipping custom actually does anything to improve service, as you received good service in Japan, however it is a commonly accepted custom around here and standard for any restaurants and bars I've ever been to.  The world of tipping is certainly a confusing and arbitrary one, and I cannot defend tipping as a custom.  Nor do I intend to defend the business practices of Murphy's.  It is my intention to help you understand tipping in this culture.

I think all you need is a little compassion for the people that work as your restaurant servers.  I understand where restaurant servers are coming from, especially since I have known several.  Julia was one in Florida, in fact.  Knowing servers is why I now understand why tipping is so important.

Waiting tables is a stressful job. I don't imagine there are very many servers who took the job for its wonderful base pay of $2 or $3/hr. Restaurant server jobs are always available and many of the people who take them want to get paid based on performance and take some cash home at the end of the night.  Servers are working to please you in order to earn a tip.  This is the reality we live in, and I'd like to be crystal clear:

If you do not tip, you'll be ostracized by those in the service industry.  Ever noticed a particularly attractive waitress? You don't have a chance with her.  She might've thought you were attractive when she first saw you, but when you leave her nothing for her efforts - she'll think you're a jerk. Sure, you could say that she could write it off as you forgetting the tip, but the second time you come in, she'll know for sure...

If you do not tip, the quality of service delivered to you will decline. This presumes that you actually come back to the places that you don't tip.  You can probably get away with not tipping if you hop around from place to place, only coming back upon occasion after the high turnover restaurant staff has mostly changed.  If however, you continue to return to the same location, it won't take long before they remember who you are, and word spreads around to different servers that you don't tip. Eventually, this probably won't take very long, no one will want to serve you at all, the servers will point you out to management and you may very well be banned.

As people who know you discover that you do not tip, you may find it hard to find people who will go out to eat with you.

I want the people that I do business with to like me. In our culture, tipping is a real tangible way to show appreciation for a job well done. In return, you'll find that the people providing you with the service will appreciate you back and give you even better service in the future.

I hope you'll reconsider your viewpoint!

Government exists!  This is the reality we live in.

The above is some of the 'weakest' arguments I've ever heard!

[Lloyd Danforth]

This is an argument by people with no understanding of basic economics.  

And yet almost all of the industry in the country including the service industry pay all of their their employees salary directly.

[FTL_Ian]

Government exists!  This is the reality we live in.

The above is some of the 'weakest' arguments I've ever heard!

Government doesn't exist, only men and women willing to do business at the threat of violence exist.   

[Lloyd Danforth]

Now that I've made it to the end of this thread, and nobody has yet asked this...

(And I wasn't able to find your blog so I'm not 100% clear on your reasons for not tipping...)

but here is my question for you:

Do you pay the 8% meal tax when you eat out?  It's not included in the prices on (most) menus.

If so, why do you pay one commonly accepted surcharge and not the other?

If not, then props to you for being consistent.

Love ya, but, this is a poor analogy.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Government exists!  This is the reality we live in.

The above is some of the 'weakest' arguments I've ever heard!

Government doesn't exist, only men and women willing to do business at the threat of violence exist.   

OK. They always have.  'This is the reality we live in!'

I am beginning to love that line!

[William]

Ever noticed a particularly attractive waitress? You don't have a chance with her.  She might've thought you were attractive when she first saw you, but when you leave her nothing for her efforts - she'll think you're a jerk.

And as we all know, women are never attracted to jerks.  Lol!

lol

[FTL_Ian]

Ever noticed a particularly attractive waitress? You don't have a chance with her.  She might've thought you were attractive when she first saw you, but when you leave her nothing for her efforts - she'll think you're a jerk.

And as we all know, women are never attracted to jerks.  Lol!

Touche', but good luck finding me a real life example of a waitress who dated a customer that didn't tip her.   

[AntonLee]

I for one find it rather fucked up that Keith banned someone for not giving extra money over the actual price.
Tipping is a personal choice. What if the person can't tip b/c they are poor? Or they just don't want to?

If you are expected to pay 20% over the stated price of a meal and call it a "tip", or you will be banned from the premises, then post it on the door.

It's his choice to keep out paying customers if he wants.
Now I know where not to eat in Manchester.

after reading this whole thread I'd have to say I agree with this (and Lloyd/Kat) most. . . I tip, and I tip well because I know the amount of work that servers do.  I understand that they are not paid well.  I also understand that they took that job knowing such.

I ate at Murphy's, it was an ok fare.  I had my meal bought for me by Max (to pay for the drive up) but I also left a tip of my own.  No offense to anyone at Murphy's, it was a nice hangout, but I was much more impressed with Vendetta in Keene.   I'm not much of a spender in the ways of drinking, I always get the old line "don't drink too many now" when I order my coke.  I try and make up for it with the extra, especially if they're liberty folks or friendlies.

I really dislike the 'Barskey Menu' that is going to be given to Mike adding 15-20%.  I most likely will speak with my dollar and not eat at that establishment again.  It's unfortunate because I did enjoy hanging out with the Free Staters there.  I just get a very bad taste in my mouth for a freestater kicking another freestater out of his establishment for not tipping. 

I find Mike to be a very warm and friendly guy.  His iphone rules as well.

[FTL_Ian]

Seems like an appropriate time for a shameless plug:

Come out to Vendetta for Social Sundays!

Details:
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=5.0

[shyfrog]

Don't forget Harlow's open mic night on Wednesday's in Peterborough too 

[FTL_Ian]

Thanks dude.  It always feels better when you're not the only one shamelessly plugging. 













Not that I've ever really felt much shame about plugging.... 

[Fluff and Stuff]

Don't forget Harlow's open mic night on Wednesday's in Peterborough too 

Or go to the meetup in Dover where there are more people

[Sam A. Robrin]

Not that I've ever really felt much shame about plugging.... 

I always say, Blow your own horn--nobody else wants to put their lips on it . . .

[ColdSoul]

6) BUT the contract didn't include that the tip was mandatory

BUT the contract does include the tip, at least according to the interaction between Keith and Mike described in the first post of this thread, and also another post from Russell.

Unless I missed something (as I don't live in NH yet, and have never been to Murphys) and there is some sign that indicates to ALL customers that they must tip of will be banned then no it as not part of the contract. He is showing that he wishes to "hide" that tips are "mandatory" when that is against the law. That being said he could still post a sign that "We have lower prices due to allowing the customer to tip. Due to this Tipping is expected and the right to refuse future service to non-tipping customers will be exercised"

Unless it's done before the person orders it's not valid to add it on to the current contract in the middle of the process.

BUT I think this is bad on Keith for hiding the fact (no notice on the wall or anything) that customers must tip, be it 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% ect. Because unless he does so he is hiding the true cost outside of the "valid" contract unless it is posted somewhere in the Bar at the entrance.

How is he hiding it?  He told Mike right to his face, and according to Russell had told more other people at some other time in the past!

Did he post a sign? Does EVERY customer who walks in know before they place a order? If not he is hiding it from the customers that do tip, because he knows it's possible someone who does tip and wouldn't otherwise know about the mandatory tipping policy might choose to go to another place due to this policy. I am sorry but this is pretty simple to me.

I think Keith and the waiter/ess wouldn't want a sign because it might lower the amount of business, and possibly if it says 10% is mandatory, nobody might tip over 10% but that doesn't make it right to hide the fact that tips are mandatory.

Keith just lowered his amount of business by telling Mike not to shop there without tipping.  Obviously he's not worried about losing business by announcing his mandatory tipping rule.

See above as unless he is informing EVERY customer BEFORE they order he is hiding it.

Keith should either inform the customers that tipping is mandatory beforehand, or not kick people out for not tipping on a individual basis.
...it shouldn't be made mandatory unless the customer is informed.

Well anyone who's read this thread has now been informed!

And every customer who goes to Murphy's read's this forum? I doubt every FSP member reads this forum so I doubt that counts as informing EVERY customer.

Again I am not saying I won't go there as I think a person should decide for themselves. I also think by not having a "offical policy" then this leaves room for personal vendetta's against people by saying well you banned for X when another person might be doing X but not be banned. What if I only tip 10%? Should I be banned? What about 5%? What about 1%? I am tipping right? I think he should have a clear cut expectations of his customers behavior before he agrees to provide them a service and change it later.

I don't think I will have a issue because I understand the point that if he has lower wages for his employees because they are expected to get 8% in tips (according to Wikipedia the IRS does charge the Bar 8% over your bill because they expect people to tip 8%).

So if everyone didn't tip atleast 8% not only would they pay taxes on money they don't get, they also would have to make up for the wages of the waiter/ess and thus prices would go out. I would rather tip and that way I can show more appreciation for the employee's who provide better service.

Also I have never tipped to make someone think higher of me, I purposely wait until the person turns around to tip if possible so that it doesn't seem like I am trying to gain favor. I tip based upon service and generally when I get good service and I tip, the next time I get GREAT service.

I tip people at starbucks
I have tipped people at fastfood (Carl's JR and Jack in the box)
I have tipped people at sub shops
I have tipped haircut people
I have tipped waiter/ess
I have tipped people at ice cream shops/donut shops
I tip the pizza guy a lot because I am always on the outskirts of a area. Hell I have had to tell the pizza place that while I was out of there area I would "make sure the delivery guy was happy" and they asked for my info and when they found out who I was they said no problem. I wouldn't have gotten that order if I hadn't previously tipped or indicated I would tip because they had the right to refuse me service and were doing me a favor.

I am just saying I support Keith in making the rules he like I just think they should be posted to all customers not just "told" to the non-tipping ones to save face to the rest. I still plan on making Murphy's my first stop in NH as I will be trying to time it so I arrive on Tuesday night is possible from my drive from California. But if there isn't any clear cut posted rules I don't see how people can be expected to follow the "code of conduct" so to speak for customers.

I also support Mike is his choice in never tipping, just don't expect me to not tip because that's not my way. I just feel that Mike and everyone should be informed before they makes orders if that's the expectation.