I was banned from Murphy's Taproom

[mackler]

If you want to see what service is like in the absence of a tipping convention, spend some time in France. It's not pretty.

I don't know if that's due to tipping customs.  They don't tip in Japan either, and I've never seen better service.

Then again, everything in Japan costs twice as much to begin with.

[Kat Kanning]

No one got fired for stealing from customers (adding tip to credit card) so Murphy must tacitly approve, even though he gave the money back when he got caught at it.

[Russell Kanning]

I was annoyed last year (or whenever) when Keith was instructing us on how 20% tips are expected.
I guess he is really serious about this ... so I guess I am not a welcome customer, since I rarely tip 20%.
There is this nice bar in Keene that seems to enjoy our presence. There might be similar in Manchester.
For meals in Manchester, our favorite spot is the Airport Diner. For large groups of people hanging out and eating, I would say the large chinese buffet will let you sit and chat ... and not expect you to tip 20%. Panera Bread has good food and no waitstaff to add to the overhead.

[dalebert]

15% is a standard tip. 20% or more is a way to reward for exceptional service. That's how I've heard it many times. I used to be a waiter.

I think where this comes from is that FSPers have developed a rep of not tipping well at Murphy's and so I think a lot of waiters kind of dread Tuesdays when it floods with FSPers and they're really busy and yet don't make much money. I wonder if it has to do with the food discounts. There are a few little points about tips that a lot of people don't understand. One is you don't tip on tax. You tip on the subtotal. Another is you're not supposed to base your tip on the discounted price. If you get a discount, like the considerable discounts on Tuesdays, you should still tip as if you paid full price. Since most people just look at their bill and tip based on that, I can see how this might be a common problem on Tuesdays. Maybe that's why Keith is saying 20%, just to simplify, though that's actually a low tip based on the Tuesday discounts, particularly if you buy appetizers before 6.

All of this is just convention, of course. Tips are not required generally. However, considering that the government started doing things like lowering minimum wage for services which typically get tips and even taxing people as if they got 15% tips in some places, I can see how the topic gets so complicated.

This is the third person I've heard of being banned from Murphy's. I certainly don't want to tell him how to run his business. On any particular occasion where I hear about him taking some authoritative action about a customer, I at times feel like I understand why he did it. But I have a growing unease about the heavy-handedness of it all. It seems good that he has concern for his employees. Still, when I was a waiter, we knew of certain groups of people who were notoriously difficult customers and/or notoriously poor tippers (usually both). We had it beaten into our heads both by managers and senior wait staff that you don't dare treat them differently for it. It just seemed like a hazard of the industry that you had to deal with or get another job. The way we often dealt with it is we'd kind of help each other out with those customers and take turns serving them. It was a way of spreading out the pain.

Lots of places add 15% gratuity to groups of 8 or more. Considering the crowds and confusion on Tuesdays, I wouldn't be offended by a 15% gratuity added to the bill (subtotal ignoring discounts) as we are essentially one large party. People can always supplement that amount.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Lots of places add 15% gratuity to groups of 8 or more.

The first and only time this happened to me I called the cops and tried to get the manager arrested.

[Friday]

Sounds like the libertarian pitfall of an incident that turned into a debate about tipping, and then the fact that someone altered a bill got lost (or at least glossed over).

Twice having a bill altered...

I am SO glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.  I bit my tongue in my original post on the subject, waiting to see if an alternate side of the story would be presented.  But taking someone's money, not only against their will, but after they've clearly indicated in writing, on a legally binding credit card receipt, that they deny permission to do so, isn't that... wait, don't tell me, I know this one.... THEFT?  I wonder how many other Free Staters have had their credit card receipts alterred and just failed to notice?   

[doobie]

When I was in Scotland, I ordered some Whisky, and it was like L1.70.  I gave them L2 and walked away.  They chased me down to give me my 30 pence back.  I told them they could keep it.  They refused and left it on the table and end up giving me WORSE service.

I like the idea of the chain mail going around of, "My waitress had an Obama sticker, so I explained that I also believed in redistribution of wealth as Obama did so I am going to give your tip to the next homeless person I see...."

Now I just need to find a place where a waiter(tress) would be outwardly pro-Obama so I can do that.

[dalebert]

I like the idea of the chain mail going around of, "My waitress had an Obama sticker, so I explained that I also believed in redistribution of wealth as Obama did so I am going to give your tip to the next homeless person I see...."

Brillian! I love it.

[doobie]

I like the idea of the chain mail going around of, "My waitress had an Obama sticker, so I explained that I also believed in redistribution of wealth as Obama did so I am going to give your tip to the next homeless person I see...."

Brillian! I love it.

Me too...  a friend posted it and it sounded like the did it...then a few days later links came from all over like it... problem is for the most part I've seen most people aren't very politically oriented while working in these types of positions, however I guess Applebee's/TGIF might be good targets.  I wouldn't mind getting a few people together and trying to target one of these places.  I think it'd work best using a credit card and leaving the tip line blank or crossing it out and seeing if they add a tip.

I think it's childish to ban someone because they don't pay a tip.  Are they going to ban people who DON'T order food next and just come for Taproom Tuesday?

[mackler]

I was annoyed last year (or whenever) when Keith was instructing us on how 20% tips are expected.
I guess he is really serious about this

Hmm.  He should just increase his prices by 20% and post "no tipping" signs.  Problem solved.

[Mike Barskey]

While I think Murphy was out of line to actually ban you, I also think you're out of line when it comes to tipping. I read your blog from 2007, and it sounds like you're looking for an excuse.

I'm not looking for an excuse. Actually, almost the opposite. I believe in my principles - I think they're well thought-out - and I act on them despite it almost always being very uncomfortable to do so! I'd love an excuse that a pro-tipping person would accept. But I don't have one, and I keep on not-tipping.

Also, maybe you can convince me I'm wrong. Want to have a discussion about tipping sometime?

Oh, and you're also incorrect when you said that "the government has a law saying that restaurant owners must pay their tip-receiving wait staff exactly $3.00 per hour - no more and no less." The "no less" part is true, but there is no upper limit for paying people who also receive tips.

Thanks. What I learned a month ago was apparently not correct, or not correct for NH. Ivy clarified the law in this thread on NH Tea Party. Thanks for correcting me.

[Mike Barskey]

Keith thinks waiting on tables is only worth 3 bucks an hour, but, we are supposed to value it 15 - 20 % above the total of the check.

Very good point.

[Mike Barskey]

While I support your right to not tip, I support his right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.

Me too!

My one question is that you NEVER tip? If you never tip to me that just seems wrong as it is a good way to show that someone being extra nice, and trying to make sure you have everything in order, or get the best deal then you are doing other customers a disservice due to lowering the incentive to be a good worker. Yes the business owner could provide incentives but aren't you the best judge if you received good service?

I never tip. Tipping can indeed indicate your pleasure with the service you received, but so can saying, "Thanks for the excellent service" or "I really appreciate you going out of your way to get me a good table," etc., which I do.

Also, I'm doing a disservice to other customers by not incentivizing the employees of a business? I think your cause and effect are mixed up here.

Also if he raised the wages of the workers then wouldn't he have to raise the rate of drinks and such? So it's not like your not getting a benefit (I.E. cheaper food and drinks) from the 3.00HR waiter/ess being paid less. Just seems sorta wrong like taking money from the government but not putting in, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Yes, if Keith paid his wait-staff more, he might choose to charge more for food or provide worse or less service/products to cover the difference. This is called the free market. His choice is to pay very small wages. I have no problem with that. I would also have no problem paying a little more for an atmosphere were tipping was not customary or expected (or, as in this case, required). Some people would have a problem paying more.

Of course a sign saying "tipping mandatory" if it is should be up.

That's actually a good idea, because it's apparently true at Murphy's. It's a very good idea, because it would mean that Keith stands by his decision to pay his wait-staff so little and expect customers to make up the difference. I do not think that Keith would post a sign telling his customers that tips are mandatory though. Does this mean that he would not really stand by his principles, but instead hides them? I don't know.

[Mike Barskey]

Sounds like the libertarian pitfall of an incident that turned into a debate about tipping, and then the fact that someone altered a bill got lost (or at least glossed over).

Twice having a bill altered...

I agree. I didn't want to talk about tipping (although I'm glad to), but wanted to let my friends who frequent Murphy's know what happened. Not many people are realizing that Murphy's Taproom stole from me, twice (I don't want to sound too harsh here with "stole" - in the first incident, it could have been an accident, although I personally doubt it was {although I have no evidence}; the second incident, however, was clearly theft {again, I have no evidence, but I know that I never tip and I don't write "4" to mean "4.00" and I recognized that the handwriting wasn't mine}).

Thanks for bringing that up.

[Mike Barskey]

If you want to see what service is like in the absence of a tipping convention, spend some time in France. It's not pretty.

Or spend some time in Japan, where tipping is considered an insult. Despite other cultural norms I disagree with, I very often received excellent service in Japan.