Keene Flag Burning Alternative-Burn Blue and Stars

[Peacemaker]

To the Individual Who will be Burning the Flags in Keene today,

Regarding the US Flag, I would like to suggest that you cut out the Blue and Stars of the Flag and only burn that, leaving the Red and White Stripes in tact to fly.

As the first flag in America was simply Red and White Stripes, which I consider to be the "free" people, I think it would be better than burning the whole flag.  The Blue (being the Federal Government) and of the course the White Stars being the State, and then offer  the explanation. 

In addition, I think it will also get allot more attention after as there will be something left to look at (the odd flag with the gov cut out) and thus spark conversation.  I think it would be a great thought provoking photo for media as well.  And obviously, with the Red and White still remaining, you can show the people that you did not "burn them," you just burned the Government.


Best

[Russell Kanning]

there have been similar suggestions

you could be there and fly your favorite "free" people flag

[AnarchoJesse]

While I understand the point you're trying to make, and I think that if I didn't have such strong intentions of speaking out against nationalism itself I might be willing to try what you recommend. I appreciate you being cordial and non-confrontational about this, and I hope even though I will be burning the entire flag in it's entirety, some people will still be inspired to speak to me and understand why it is I am doing what I am doing.

The only flags I would not consider burning are the "An Appeal to Heaven" and "Dont Tread On Me", as they seem to be the only ones that might capture the spirit of anti-nationalism.

[Lumpy]

While I understand the point you're trying to make, and I think that if I didn't have such strong intentions of speaking out against nationalism itself I might be willing to try what you recommend. I appreciate you being cordial and non-confrontational about this, and I hope even though I will be burning the entire flag in it's entirety, some people will still be inspired to speak to me and understand why it is I am doing what I am doing.

The only flags I would not consider burning are the "An Appeal to Heaven" and "Dont Tread On Me", as they seem to be the only ones that might capture the spirit of anti-nationalism.

I agree with Russell but this is obviously not my expressionism at work; it's yours, though your sentiments are appreciated.  That said, do you have any US Civil Flags to display?

[dalebert]

That said, do you have any US Civil Flags to display?

Never seen that one. What's that about?

[Lumpy]

That said, do you have any US Civil Flags to display?

Never seen that one. What's that about?

A civil flag is a version of the national flag that is flown by civilians on non-government installations or craft. The use of civil flags was more common in the past, in order to denote buildings or ships that were not manned by the military.

The People of the United States actually have two national flags, a military flag and a civil flag for peacetime.
They have several important distinctions and meanings.  Almost all Americans think of the Stars and Stripes "Old Glory" as their only flag.  The Stars and Stripes originated as a result of a resolution adopted by the Marine Committee of the Second Continental Congress at Philadelphia on June 14, 1777, for use on military installations, on ships, and in battle, directing that a U.S. flag consist of 13 stripes, alternating red and white; that a union be 13 stars, white in a blue field, representing a new Constellation.

Prior to, during the War for Independence, and after under the Articles of Confederation, smuggling was seen as a patriotic duty of the citizens of the thirteen independent and sovereign states, but after the ratification of the Constitution and the establishment of a new nation, smuggling needed to be stopped. The new nation depended on the revenue from customs tariffs, duties and taxes on imported goods in order to survive.

In 1790, with the customs laws firmly in place, Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton set to work devising adequate means of enforcing the year-old regulations. "A few armed vessels, judiciously stationed at the entrances of our ports," Hamilton suggested, "might at a small expense be made useful sentinels of our laws." Congress concurred, and that year appropriated $10,000 to build and maintain a fleet of ten revenue cutters, which were to be placed under the charge of the customs collectors, whose responsibilities would be enforcement of the tariff laws. Along with financial responsibility, Hamilton demanded that the officers be servants of the people. "They [the officers] will always keep in mind that their Countrymen are Freemen and as such are impatient of everything that bears that least mark of a domineering Spirit."

Nine years later, Congress refined the revenue cutters' role in customs operations with the passage of the Act of March 2, 1799, known as the Customs Administration Act. In particular, Congress determined "the cutters and boats employed in the service of the revenue shall be distinguished from other vessels by "an ensign and pendant, with such marks thereon as shall be prescribed and directed by the President of the United States." Additionally, the Act permitted commanders of revenue vessels to fire at other vessels failing to respond "after such pendant and ensign shall be hoisted and a gun fired by such revenue cutter as a signal." By this act the Revenue Marine (later called the Revenue Cutter Service) ensign served as the seagoing equivalent of a policeman's badge, the distinctive sign of the vessel's law enforcement authority.

The job of designing the distinguishing ensign eventually fell upon Oliver Wolcott, who had replaced Alexander Hamilton as Secretary of the Treasury in 1795. On June 1, 1799, Wolcott submitted his design to President John Adams for approval. Wolcott's proposal featured an ensign of sixteen stripes, alternating red and white, representing the number of states that had joined the Union by 1799, with the Union to be the Arms of the United States in dark blue on a white field. It is significant that Wolcott turned the arrangement of the stripes ninety degrees to vertical to differentiate the new revenue cutter ensign from the U.S. Flag, to denote civilian authority under the Treasury Department, rather than military authority under the War Department.

Personally, I think it's beautiful and I didn't know squat about it either until recently perusing sovereign web sites.

There is more here Dale:  http://www.barefootsworld.net/uscivilflag.html

[dalebert]

Wow. I wonder why they didn't teach that in my government school.

[Lumpy]

Wow. I wonder why they didn't teach that in my government school.

I don't know either as I'm a product (victim) or government schools and there is much I have to learn about the truth as well.  I find that part very sad, especially that it's supposed to be our peace time flag. 

[Peacemaker]

Thanks for your comments.  Good points and great history to boot (thanks for taking the time Lumpy). 

I think my problem in my picture (red and white stripe flag), is that's it's not a literal definition, but rather a simple redefintion of what the red and white stripes could mean to the large majority.   I don't have any problem with burning a government flag (i love it actually), I was just thinking about how this story is going to be reported and what I think alot of people are going to think.

Versus, redefining the Red and White for now, the picture of the Flag with the government CUT out and BURNED (the stripes represent the people, who want to live without Govenment) as a transition, to get them to think.  Also, historically, alot of people have burned flags (not saying w/out good reason), but it rolls you into that large group giving the impression that you hate this place and everyone in it (which is I"m sure the easiest way for the media to hit and make you look bad on this one).

I also think it would be easier for everyone, including the media, to report this distinction, as part of the flag would still exist, versus alot of people thinking you are "burning" everyone.   The distinction of no gov versus gov would be better illustrated
in my opinion.  (but of course at the end of the day, the red and white is literally still a gov flag and I certainly understand and root for your motivations).   And AM, I'm sure people will still talk to you regardless of what you do.  Best.

[Lumpy]

Thanks for your comments.  Good points and great history to boot (thanks for taking the time Lumpy). 

It was mostly cut and paste but yeah, still a lot of god info not typically addressed.  You're welcome.

I'm not sure how I feel entirely about the flag burning thing as far as how it will connect with people and how people are going to take it.  I feel the best way to truly create change (or keep from change, or what have you) is face to face, belly to belly.  To me, that is the most effective way to affect change.

As far as his expression of burning a US flag, it's his expression, he owns it, so I support his right to freedom of speech/expression.

Additionally, I no longer will fly a FedGov flag with exception of the NH State flag, and like AnarchoMartyr, I appreciate far greater the significance of the "An Appeal to Heaven" and "Don't Tread On Me" for similar reasons...  perhaps that is clearly stated already by my simply posting on this glorious and wonderful site to begin with.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

A civil flag is a version of the national flag that is flown by civilians on non-government installations or craft.

Not to sound critical, but I think that like so many things that come from the so-called "Patriot Movement" there's a grain of truth to this, but the rest is BS.

Yes, the flag exists. Notice the word "civic" though? Civil rights are "rights granted by a government" such as the right to vote. A "civil" war is between people of the same nation. Why then would a "civil flag" be flown by free men?

It isn't. The history you pasted, when in the context of a free man's flag, sounds "glorious". How would it sound if I told you that flag inspired in people of the day the same feelings that a police shield inspires in people today?

That flag was on Revenue Cutters. Yes, the same kind of "Revenue" as the Internal Revenue Service. It was the 'badge' of tax collectors.

Prior to the Revolution, smuggling was a needed and patriotic act. As soon as the Consititution was ratified, the government people in the new US of A realized those same smugglers were sapping potential tarrifs. Hamilton, a federalist and supporter of central banking, pled to Congress for "A few armed vessels, judiciously stationed at the entrances of our ports, might at a small expense be made useful sentinels of our laws."

Be weary of encouraging people to fly that flag, called then "The Revenue Ensign" as it's the sign of tax collectors for the most part.

[John Edward Mercier]

When ever Hamilton is involved it should be a dead give away...
Even during the Revolutionary War the little bastard was scheming.

[Lumpy]

A civil flag is a version of the national flag that is flown by civilians on non-government installations or craft.

Not to sound critical, but I think that like so many things that come from the so-called "Patriot Movement" there's a grain of truth to this, but the rest is BS.

Yes, the flag exists. Notice the word "civic" though? Civil rights are "rights granted by a government" such as the right to vote. A "civil" war is between people of the same nation. Why then would a "civil flag" be flown by free men?

It isn't. The history you pasted, when in the context of a free man's flag, sounds "glorious". How would it sound if I told you that flag inspired in people of the day the same feelings that a police shield inspires in people today?

That flag was on Revenue Cutters. Yes, the same kind of "Revenue" as the Internal Revenue Service. It was the 'badge' of tax collectors.

Prior to the Revolution, smuggling was a needed and patriotic act. As soon as the Consititution was ratified, the government people in the new US of A realized those same smugglers were sapping potential tarrifs. Hamilton, a federalist and supporter of central banking, pled to Congress for "A few armed vessels, judiciously stationed at the entrances of our ports, might at a small expense be made useful sentinels of our laws."

Be weary of encouraging people to fly that flag, called then "The Revenue Ensign" as it's the sign of tax collectors for the most part.

Thank you for that interesting lesson.  I didn't learn that in high school or college either for that matter.
Damn that Hamilton!     

[Peacemaker]

I second that motion!

Damn that Hamilton!!!

Thanks for your time Kevin!  Great info!

[shyfrog]

I have yet to find a company that makes or sells the flag flown by the Sons of Liberty. Simple enough to custom make maybe?

9 red and white vertical stripes (5 red, 4 white)