Porc 411: SPCA and Police en route to home in Candia NH

[Dave Ridley]

pick yer battles carefully lumpy...dont go frontal-charging machine gun nests!

i guess this advice could apply to everyone...

[Lumpy]

pick yer battles carefully lumpy...dont go frontal-charging machine gun nests!

i guess this advice could apply to everyone...

I hear you and I agree wholeheartedly.  Still frosts my ass but I stand (sit) corrected sir.  Thanks

[Puke]

Here's an update....
....And the latter will open up a whole new can of whoop-ass!

[Russell Kanning]

it has been good how your whole gang stood up to the thugs

we should have know that spca guy was a donut eating thug

[doobie]

Not sure if this has been seen:

http://www.nh.gov/humane/documents/080327min.pdf

Minutes of March 27 2008 of the NH Commissions on the Treatment of Animals

In Steve Sprowls own words: (bottom of Page 3 of the minutes)

The other problem is that we have very little authority in this state. Most investigators are not empowered to make arrests unless they are sworn in as deputies by a Sheriff Department. Most of the Sheriff Departments are not willing to swear in special deputies because of liability and insurance issues. Even if sworn, some do not have the qualifications to handle full investigations and have never been trained or are experienced in law enforcement. Steve proposes we should have the same set up here in NH as the Mass MSPCA does.

Page 4
NH could do the same if the Governor would appoint our agents as special auxiliary troopers, giving them the powers of arrest and search warrants and then we could be move valuable to our agencies and not have to get local PD's involved especially if they do not want to be involved. Presently it is hard to get a police involved and getting search warrants. Most Police Departments are concerned with the costs of seizing animals and holding animals for court and some have even refused to take on animal cases because of the costs.

[drumnaked!]

Interesting and scary. Even if this guy had the full power of the law behind him, How am I supposed to know that? If he tried to arrest me, I might shoot his ass for not being a cop. This is very thin ice here.

[burt43]

Can't understand his name.  Coop?  An agent from SPCA came to talk to him about their horses.  Agent didnt introduce or tell them who he was and was told to get off property.  Police were called to scene and are in route.  Him and Dan are going to stand their ground by the road and ensure that no one gets on the property without a search warrant.   456 Critchet (spelling?) Road Candia NH - caller said anyone who wishes to join them is welcome. 

Hopefully some video comes of this

shit, sign me up.

[Lumpy]

What the doughnut eater said scared me too.  My father said to me (and I kid you not) "One of the problems they have in New Hampshire is that the government has a hard time getting money".  Yes, my father is equally as dangerous.  I'm working on him but I don't expect any miracles.  That usually only stirs up a bad afternoon or lengthy grumblings...  I'll admit that I both enjoyed that sentence as well as felt like I was being waterboarded...  that kind of thinking will get anyone waterboarded...  eventually.
Bigger government, more power to tread, etc.  This guy is still a cop and a dangerous one at that with the way he seems to think it's okay to spout off that bull.

[Sam A. Robrin]

I'm just reminded of the old joke:

"Mr. Policeman, would you get my cat down from that tree?"
BANG!
Flop.

[neggy]

Hello Ladies and Gents. I have been following this topic via another board ( Hi Doobie!) and I went so far as to email the NHSPCA and ask them flat out id the investigator was sworn by the Rockingham County Sheriff. I got a short, terse EMAIL back from the investigator himself that they were not answering questions from unknown people at this time. My response was that since my wife and I donate to the NHSPCA ( or we used to they no longer are on our charitable giving list ) I should be able to get an answer.

If I were one of the parties involved here, I would be down at the nearest court pressing charges for impersonating an officer against Mr. Sproul. I would be calling the cop as a witness, and if he declined to appear I'd sue him for false arrest.

Good luck and thanks for standing up for all of our rights.

[n/a]

okay, here are a few things i'd like to add here:

#1 how to legally record cops with no risk (reasonable) of conviction:

check to see if the camera you have now, or the camera you plan to get, has audio adjustment or has the ability to use an external (attachment) microphone.  practice muting or turning off the audio, so you can do it quickly and without having to search for the correct switch/button/etc...  if an officer (or anyone else) tells you to stop recording, switch off the audio and make them aware they are no longer being audio recorded.  video recording alone does not violate the law.  audio recording without permission is considered "eves dropping, wiretapping, or spying"; however, it does not apply to video.

i would also suggest the following: put up a visible and readable sign around the entrance or front door of your property that resembles the following (taken strait from a government building):


and, if you're feeling bold (though this can result in arrest, but less of a chance than audio recording from the camera) call porc 411, get the exchange on that, then match up that audio with your video later.

#2. i've seen situations like this before, and first hand.  the meter reader (the guy who reads the meter at my parent's home to figure out our power use for the month) noticed a large increase in our power use in the barn when we finished remodeling the upstairs into an apartment, and i moved in.  they alerted the police of this increase, and my folks have since been in a legal battle with the city because some of the changes made, and my living there for 4 months right after college, violated some building codes.  so, at this point, all city workers and even private company employees who do anything at your home are informants.  if they see something even slightly odd (or make up something odd), they will tell the cops.  which leads me to....

#3. something the look forward to with the obama administration:

"The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation's challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start."

and from his chief of staff's "new patriot act" proposal:

    It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ... Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs.

[Russell Kanning]

If I were one of the parties involved here, I would be down at the nearest court pressing charges for impersonating an officer against Mr. Sproul. I would be calling the cop as a witness, and if he declined to appear I'd sue him for false arrest.

It is possible .... they would just make him an "officer" and he can have his fun again.

[dalebert]

It still seems like an unusual interpretation of the law to say you must get permission. It seems like even a bit of a stretch to say to have to tell them. This was meant for phone calls and even then, I believe you just had to inform them. I think it's more than sufficient to simply inform them and they can choose what they say at that point. Think about all those service calls you make where they inform you it may be recorded for training purposes. This may get tested in court, but to this day has still not become an issue. Also, this is more an issue of what would be evidence in court, which is usually not the reason we're doing it. We just want to share information with the public for the most part. It's not an issue for YouTubing something. I don't see people saying that in all those YouTube videos of people in various places.

If I get asked to stop recording, my intention is to respectfully decline as Ridley does.

[MaineShark]

Inform them explicitly that they are free to leave if they don't want to be recorded.

Since they are not serving a warrant, they can't claim that they "have to" be there, so staying there is consent.

Joe

[Dave Ridley]

another option is to back away a bit from the person who is ordering you around.  i don t usually do that but it might look to say I'm happy to stop audio recording you by backing away from you but i wont comply with your order to shut off the camera.

another thing...was cooper arrested on his property or on the road / right - of - way?   in a circumstance like this it's possibly better to retreat to your own property so that you are arrested there, making them look even more like thugs than otherwise.