Burning waste cooking oil

[Lloyd Danforth]

And you can make handsoap from the byproduct of making biodiesel.

[Michael Fisher]

And you can make handsoap from the byproduct of making biodiesel.

So if I get a car with a diesel engine, I can go fill it up, without modification, at any biodiesel pump?

That would be nice.

But what's the price in comparison to diesel fuel?

[AlanM]

Actually, just curious about this idea. Don't want to get into the mix. I'll have plenty else on my plate.

[Russell Kanning]

But what's the price in comparison to diesel fuel?

the same or higher I think .... if we went this way we could change that

[Russell Kanning]

I have a copy (video, not DVD) of a hilarious documentary called "Fat of the Land", about five girls who drove an unaltered van all the way across the U.S. on fast food restaurant oil, and made a movie about it. If anyone would like to host a viewing, I'd be happy to bring the video.?

must see tv or video

[president]

And you can make handsoap from the byproduct of making biodiesel.

So if I get a car with a diesel engine, I can go fill it up, without modification, at any biodiesel pump?

That would be nice.

But what's the price in comparison to diesel fuel?

Yes, you can use biodiesel in a diesel engine without any modification. If you use biodiesel in a diesel engine frequently in high percentage blends you will need to change the fuel hoses and fuel pump gaskets.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/afv/bio_vehicles.html

Maintenance Considerations

Always check with the vehicle manufacturer before fueling with biodiesel. In older vehicles, high-percentage blends of biodiesel (greater than 20$) can affect fuel hoses and pump seals made from certain elastomers. The effect is lessened with lower percentage blends. Elastomers (found in hoses and gaskets) that are biodiesel-compatible are required for use with B100 and high-percentage biodiesel blends.

All diesel fuels require special measures for use in cold temperatures. Biodiesel has a higher cloud point than conventional diesel. However, the same strategies used to ensure operability of conventional diesel fuels in wintertime will also work for biodiesel blends. These include the use of additives and blending with No. 1 diesel.

To protect equipment and ensure trouble-free operation, B100 used for blending with conventional diesel should meet the ASTM D6751 specification.

When I was checking into biodiesel prices last year it was $2.50 a gallon, and $2.40 a gallon if you bought more than 50 gallons at a time. I think diesel and home heating oi were just under $2.00/gallon at the time. But you can also make your own out of waste veggie oil.

Also, most cars converted to run on veggie oil have a two tank system. You could use biodiesel in the second tank instead of regular diesel.

[Michael Fisher]

Yes, you can use biodiesel in a diesel engine without any modification. If you use biodiesel in a diesel engine frequently in high percentage blends you will need to change the fuel hoses and fuel pump gaskets.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/afv/bio_vehicles.html

That's easy enough for me.  I'm not a mechanic, but that doesn't seem so difficult.  Or I could just pay my mechanic to do it.

Actually, if my car is a 1995 or 1996, I believe the hoses may be good enough to leave alone, but I'm not sure about the gaskets.

[Mark]

A brief brain dump that I hope answers some of the points here:

- Biodiesel can be made from basically any oily seed (soy is the most common), or can be reclaimed from veggie oil. There's a company in NH that manufactures industrial-scale presses for oil extraction from seeds, BTW.
- Veggie grease and biodiesel are not the same thing, exactly.
- The "bio" portion of the biodiesel you buy at the pump is, in all cases that I'm aware of, extracted from soybeans in the Midwest and blended with regular (dino) diesel here.
- You can run your car on biodiesel with no modifications (assuming it has a diesel engine, of course). You probably need to use an additive in the winter to prevent gelling with high percentage blends.
- Emissions of pollutants and particulate are lower with biodiesel, with the exception of NOx.
- A car running biodiesel *may* have problems with hoses and seals as mentioned, but:
         a). I know people who run very expensive equipment as well as regular cars and don't know anyone who has encountered this.
         b). From what I hear, this is going to be an issue with the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel that is coming anyway.
- A car running biodiesel will probably require more filter changes initially. This is because the biodiesel has a detergent effect and tends to remove deposits, which clog filters.
- From what I've been told, biodiesel offers better lubricity than dino-diesel.
- Biodiesel blends cost more than dino-diesel, but that difference is getting smaller.
- You can run your home furnace on a bio-heat blend without modification. Again, filters may be an issue due to sediment.
- You can run a regular car on veggie oil with some modifications. Companies like Greasel (sp?) sell kits to do this. I've been told that you'll probably still have to tinker a bit after installing the kit. I've also been told that the modifications to the engine are illegal. I don't know if this is accurate.
- You can convert veggie grease to biodiesel using a simple process involving methanol, water, lye, and some equipment. You can buy ready-to-use machines for this or build your own.

Regarding production/sale
- Making your own fuel for off-road use is no problem, but if you're making it for on-road use you need to pay a tax to the state.
- The testing that is likely to be required by distributors is expensive.
- Within a few years, you will be competing against global fuel suppliers
- Collection at the scale you would need for a successful commercial venture would be difficult. Every time you move it, you add cost to your product, so you'd have to have a pretty efficient collection system.
- In addition to competing against fuel dealers, you'll be facing competition from large-scale grease collectors/rendering operations.

The state legislature recently formed a study committee to look at biodiesel use in NH. This was the result of a bill introduced by Packy Campbell (R-Farmington) which would force home heating oil dealers to purchase a small percentage of their fuel as biodiesel. The mandate didn't go anywhere, but they were apparently interested in the biodiesel concept.

[Russell Kanning]

I've also been told that the modifications to the engine are illegal. I don't know if this is accurate.

In a state like NH that doesn't have emissions laws .... how can any changes be illegal?

And if it was illegal ..... why would I care?

[KBCraig]

I can just see the stampede to the tax office to pay the tax on homemade fuel.

[Russell Kanning]

Regarding production/sale
- Making your own fuel for off-road use is no problem, but if you're making it for on-road use you need to pay a tax to the state.
- The testing that is likely to be required by distributors is expensive.
- Within a few years, you will be competing against global fuel suppliers
- Collection at the scale you would need for a successful commercial venture would be difficult. Every time you move it, you add cost to your product, so you'd have to have a pretty efficient collection system.
- In addition to competing against fuel dealers, you'll be facing competition from large-scale grease collectors/rendering operations.

pay a tax? hahahahahaha ..... that is part of the fun.
If we are using it ourselves and selling privately we can sell to people who trust us.
This technology is not new it is just largely ignored.
That is why this will be a small scale organization.
What do the big grease collectors do?

[president]

pay a tax? hahahahahaha ..... that is part of the fun.
If we are using it ourselves and selling privately we can sell to people who trust us.

Sell it for oil furnaces, diesel generators, and farming equipment. If someone puts it in their car for fuel, it is up to them to pay the tax, if they want to.

[Russell Kanning]

The state legislature recently formed a study committee to look at biodiesel use in NH. This was the result of a bill introduced by Packy Campbell (R-Farmington) which would force home heating oil dealers to purchase a small percentage of their fuel as biodiesel. The mandate didn't go anywhere, but they were apparently interested in the biodiesel concept.

oh goody

[Michael Fisher]

This sounds better and better every day.

It's time to get a used car with a diesel engine.

Doh, I just changed my car.     This will have to wait until later.

[Russell Kanning]

It's time to get a used car with a diesel engine.

Doh, I just changed my car.? ?? This will have to wait until later.

That is why we were bummed when you got a non TDI Jetta

If you are buying biodiesel at a STATE approved place you are still playing THE MANS game ....... the stuff you make yourself or buy from one of your friends is less .......encumbered
It is cheaper and there is no paperwork to fill out.