MPD challenged over "keep moving" orders

[Dave Ridley]

reposted by permission

> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:32:26 +0000
>
> Christopher Booth sent a message using the contact form at
> http://ridleyreport.com/contact.
>
> The Manchester police have had a endemic misconception that demonstrators
> had to keep moving. On Wednesday and Thursday I was in front of the
> Hillsborough County Courthouse holding a sign, and on Thursday two officers
> in a car told me that I had to keep moving. I asked them if that was a
> local ordinance, and they said it was. So I looked up that ordinance, and
> found they were wrong, there is an ordinance that says three or more people
> can be asked not to block a sidewalk, and one that says that you can be
> asked to move if you are blocking a doorway, but none that says you have to
> keep moving (if there had been I would have asked that it be rescinded). So
> on Friday I had a long talk with Manchester's chief of police, who agreed
> that the ordinance does not say that you have to keep moving, and that if
> anyone told me to do so, I should get the officer's name and call the
> chief. Ok, so on Monday I was back out in front of the courthouse, this
> time there were five of us, and two policemen on bicycles came by and told
> us we had to keep moving. Ok, so I asked for the officers name, and that
> led him to ask for mine. An officer can only require you to provide your
> name in New Hampshire if they believe you have committed a crime, are
> committing a crime, or are going to commit a crime. So apparently standing
> there holding a sign isn't a crime, but asking the officer's name is. I
> explained the situation (I was also asked for my date of birth, which can
> never under any circumstances be required, and refused, and was asked for
> my address, which once again can only be required if they believe a crime
> is involved), and they bicycled off to headquarters, a block away. Shortly
> they came back and apologized that the ordinance does in fact not require
> us to keep moving.
>
> Some time later a captain came out, and said that he supported our first
> amendment rights, but that we had to keep moving - remember the comment
> about endemic? I explained that it wasn't in the ordinance and so he backed
> off from the request. He said he just wanted to know if he needed to send
> an officer out to protect us. No, thank you we were doing quite fine.
>
> So, if you are in Manchester demonstrating and the police tell you to keep
> moving, challenge it, get their name, and call the police chief.

[Kat Kanning]

Good info.

[doobie]

Way to go!  Being a Hermit I usually only congregate in groups of 1.... never been asked to keep moving.   

[AntonLee]

saying no to your favorite bureaucrat, well done

[Puke]

Is there a specific name or number for this ordinance?

Such as RSA: 1291qIII kfii kjk*&#%^&^@#kh892734827

[Amos Keag]

very cool.  thanks.

[www]

Is there a specific name or number for this ordinance?

Yes. The one that says you can't block a doorway is 130.01 (B) No person or persons shall sit, stand, or lounge in or about the doors or passageways to any store, office, shop, or other tenement except the owners or tenants therof, after having been requested the owner or occupant, or any police officer or watchman, to depart there from.

I guess it's sort of in English. Someone must have at least left out the word "by" somewhere though.

The one that says that three people can be asked to move if they are blocking a sidewalk is 130.02 Obstructing Passageways: Three or more persons shall not stand in a group, or near each other, on any foot or sidewalk, so as to obstruct a free passage for foot passengers, and any persons or persons obstructing the foot or sidewalks shall move on immediately after a request made by any police officer or watchman.

I have no idea what a "foot" is, in that context.

The part about identifying yourself, and bear in mind that I'm not a lawyer, so don't take anything I say as legal advice, is from RSA 594:2 Questioning and Detaining Suspects. - A peace officer may stop any person abroad whom he has reason to suspect is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime, and may demand of him his name, address, business abroad and where he is going.

Nothing more. SSN? Forgetaboutit. Oh and if you are in a vehicle such as in a boat or a car, you can be required to produce identification in order to establish ownership of the boat or vehicle. All the NH RSA's and Manchester ordinances are online.

I'm sure many of you are well familiar with the next section, RSA 594:3 Searching for Weapons. - A peace officer may search for a dangerous weapon any person whom he is questioning or about to question as provided in RSA 594:2 whenever he reasonably believes that he might be in danger if such person possessed a dangerous weapon. If the officer finds a weapon, he may take and keep it until the completion of the questioning, when he shall either return it or arrest the person.

You all probably know that I believe that the 2nd amendment guarantees the right of any prisoner to have any weapon of their choosing, bazooka, tank, machine gun...
A right is something that can never be taken away from you. A privilege is something that can be taken away. And a right that shall not be infringed? Well that is just being redundant.

[SpeedPhreak]

and any persons or persons obstructing the foot or sidewalks shall move on immediately after a request made by any police officer or watchman.

I have no idea what a "foot" is, in that context.

"foot" or "side".... walk.  so a foot path that is not along the side of a road.  ie trail.

[David]

The Manchester guys and gals are doing some good stuff over there.  They aren't too keen to follow their own rules, so sometimes you have to remind them in such a way that doesn't involve them hurting you.   

[Mike Barskey]

Thanks, Dave. Your line of questions, research, and communication with the cops regarding this issue was educational to me, and it sounds like it was peaceful and productive for you.

[www]

The choice was either to challenge it in court, i.e. let them arrest you and then hope that the court would read the ordinance and throw the case out, or to challenge it administratively, which is the path that was chosen, with great success.

[Dave Ridley]

no it wasn't me that pulled this off, thank booth

[www]

I think you can thank everyone who told me to "question authority".

[Lloyd Danforth]

The Manchester guys and gals are doing some good stuff over there.  They aren't too keen to follow their own rules, so sometimes you have to remind them in such a way that doesn't involve them hurting you.   

Apparently given the open carry stuff they need constant reminding. I would just avoid Manchester altogether.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I find it interesting that the safest state in the country doesn't have any of the 2 safest cities.

http://money.aol.com/mortgage/safest-states-to-live-in