Gun Talk, looking at purchases and double checking on thoughts

[ColdSoul]

Since I live in California and it has very draconian gun laws (no mag's over 10 rds) I haven't purchased a gun yeat and I will be purchasing several upon getting to or on my way to NH.

Here is a list of guns and there purpose that I plan to purchase soon, or within a year of arriving at NH, hopefully at JR'sgunsmithing

Home Defense/Hunting:
12 GA Shotgun:
My Choice: Remington Modem 870 Express Super Mag (Can handle all 12 GA shells which is a must IMHO)
I have never fired a pump, but I want this one because it can fire any 12GA round, and it also should be able to handle being in the field, and not used for years being pump action.
(500 bucks or so)

Open Carry:
.45 ACP or 9MM
My Choices:
Glock 21 .45 ACP
Springfield Armory XD .45
Springfield Armory XD 9mm
Springfield Armory XDM 9mm or .40 (leaning to this in 9MM as you have 19+1 rd's)
(600 or so)

Rifle:
.223 and 30-06
My Choice:
BushMaster Varminter .223
Though I am open to any 30-06 bolt action's that someone might mention for an additional pickup later for more long range shooting (400+ yards).
(1200+ or so)

I am also looking into getting a little .22LR pistol as another later purchase, but haven't researched much I think I might go revolver on that in order to keep something non semi around for reliability.

Anyone have any recommendations, or comments on my choices? I am open to choosing something else (for example a AK47 type gun instead of a AR-15 type, but a feel having a NATO round is more useful than the extra power). I am also looking at picking up a Mauser as JR has them cheap and that would be a good fill in until I get a 30-06 later.

[Puke]

The XD(m) 9mm is a fantastic handgun.
For a rifle I like the Beretta Mini 14 / Mini 30.
For a .22 I'm looking at the Beretta Neos. It is a pistol that also has a rifle conversion kit. Making it two guns in one.

[DigitalWarrior]

Make friends in New Hampshire and buy a Sig. 

The company is in Exeter.  You will not likely be able to buy until you get to NH and get a drivers license here.  No dealer will sell you a normal capacity magazine or an EBR with a CA ID.

[ColdSoul]

The XD(m) 9mm is a fantastic handgun.
For a rifle I like the Beretta Mini 14 / Mini 30.
For a .22 I'm looking at the Beretta Neos. It is a pistol that also has a rifle conversion kit. Making it two guns in one.

Thanks for the info, the Mini-14 looks like a good cheaper AR-15 carbine. I think the Mini-30 might appeal more as a 2nd rifle for bigger game. I will take a look at the Beretta Neo's when I can.

Make friends in New Hampshire and buy a Sig. 

The company is in Exeter.  You will not likely be able to buy until you get to NH and get a drivers license here.  No dealer will sell you a normal capacity magazine or an EBR with a CA ID.

I have thought about it, but if I do it will be more of a cheaper 2nd handgun, the XD is just way to good to pass up on to be honest. Do you know a sig hangun that might be on quality with it?

I can purchase rifles, but yes the one I want wouldn't be CA compliant. But just some form of residency is required, I am sure if I get a temporary ID card, and also provide a copy of my lease agreement that should be sufficient so I think I should be able to do it by the end of the year.

[MaineShark]

I have thought about it, but if I do it will be more of a cheaper 2nd handgun, the XD is just way to good to pass up on to be honest. Do you know a sig hangun that might be on quality with it?

Sig's are of equivalent quality to the XD's.

Personally, I carry a Springfield, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Sig based upon quality - they just don't have anything that happens to interest me.

Joe

[KBCraig]

But just some form of residency is required, I am sure if I get a temporary ID card, and also provide a copy of my lease agreement that should be sufficient so I think I should be able to do it by the end of the year.

You would think so, wouldn't you?

But sadly, no, ATF does not agree. If you purchase from an FFL dealer, you must provide a current state-issued DL or photo ID, and it must list your current address to match what you put down on the 4473.

What is your level of shooting experience? All the guns you list are good ones, but you're looking at a pretty hefty investment there. If you're relatively new to shooting, chances are your preferences might change after you get a few thousand round down range.

I know it was a typo, but the Mini-14/Mini-30 are made by Ruger, not Beretta. It's probably Ruger's worst gun ever; they are a quality manufacturer, but if they were ever accused of making a "bad" gun, the Mini series would be it. The Mini-14 is probably the least accurate .223/5.56 gun ever made. Some are accurate, but most aren't. They're handy, and plenty good enough for milk jugs at 100 yards or less, but they are far from being precision rifles.

I'd move the .22 pistol (or revolver) up to second place on your list, right behind a centerfire pistol. The .22 is great for honing your handgun skills cheaply. Of course you also want to spend some serious trigger time learning your full-bore handgun, too. (And any of those you listed would be a good choice, but I lean towards the XD.)

Next comes the shotgun. The 870 is a good choice because spare and aftermarket parts are ubiquitous. It can be configured multiple ways, from über-tacticool with rails and lights and lasers and matte-black synthetics, to a very traditional-looking deer or bird gun with shiny wood furniture.

The fact that you're asking about rifles causes me to assume that you don't have a lot of experience with them. Yes, a good .30-06 bolt action rifle (Savage 110, FTW!) would be desirable at 400 yards and beyond, but that's an arbitrary figure. It's true that if you can't shoot it well at 100 yards, you'll never shoot it well at 1,000, but it's not true that if you shoot well at 100 yards you'll be a good shot at 1,000. Rifle marksmanship beyond 200 yards, especially beyond 300 yards, is a black art that requires a lot of devoted trigger time and record keeping of your accurate observations about the weather conditions. I'm not a good shot past 100 yards, but I've tried it enough to know my limitations. You can't just lay the crosshairs on the target and pull the trigger at longer ranges.

Besides, NH is such a wooded and hilly state that a clean shot over 200 yards is going to be rare, whether for hunting deer or... well, other purposes.

But, I do recommend lots of .22 rifle trigger time, so even if you're comfortable with your rifle choices, a good .22 rifle and several thousand rounds down range will build your basic skills. I recommend the Ruger 10/22, for the same reasons as the 870 shotgun: it's ubiquitous. It's the small-block Chevy of the rimfire world.

[ColdSoul]

But just some form of residency is required, I am sure if I get a temporary ID card, and also provide a copy of my lease agreement that should be sufficient so I think I should be able to do it by the end of the year.

You would think so, wouldn't you?

But sadly, no, ATF does not agree. If you purchase from an FFL dealer, you must provide a current state-issued DL or photo ID, and it must list your current address to match what you put down on the 4473.

What is your level of shooting experience? All the guns you list are good ones, but you're looking at a pretty hefty investment there. If you're relatively new to shooting, chances are your preferences might change after you get a few thousand round down range.

I know it was a typo, but the Mini-14/Mini-30 are made by Ruger, not Beretta. It's probably Ruger's worst gun ever; they are a quality manufacturer, but if they were ever accused of making a "bad" gun, the Mini series would be it. The Mini-14 is probably the least accurate .223/5.56 gun ever made. Some are accurate, but most aren't. They're handy, and plenty good enough for milk jugs at 100 yards or less, but they are far from being precision rifles.

I'd move the .22 pistol (or revolver) up to second place on your list, right behind a centerfire pistol. The .22 is great for honing your handgun skills cheaply. Of course you also want to spend some serious trigger time learning your full-bore handgun, too. (And any of those you listed would be a good choice, but I lean towards the XD.)

Next comes the shotgun. The 870 is a good choice because spare and aftermarket parts are ubiquitous. It can be configured multiple ways, from über-tacticool with rails and lights and lasers and matte-black synthetics, to a very traditional-looking deer or bird gun with shiny wood furniture.

The fact that you're asking about rifles causes me to assume that you don't have a lot of experience with them. Yes, a good .30-06 bolt action rifle (Savage 110, FTW!) would be desirable at 400 yards and beyond, but that's an arbitrary figure. It's true that if you can't shoot it well at 100 yards, you'll never shoot it well at 1,000, but it's not true that if you shoot well at 100 yards you'll be a good shot at 1,000. Rifle marksmanship beyond 200 yards, especially beyond 300 yards, is a black art that requires a lot of devoted trigger time and record keeping of your accurate observations about the weather conditions. I'm not a good shot past 100 yards, but I've tried it enough to know my limitations. You can't just lay the crosshairs on the target and pull the trigger at longer ranges.

Besides, NH is such a wooded and hilly state that a clean shot over 200 yards is going to be rare, whether for hunting deer or... well, other purposes.

But, I do recommend lots of .22 rifle trigger time, so even if you're comfortable with your rifle choices, a good .22 rifle and several thousand rounds down range will build your basic skills. I recommend the Ruger 10/22, for the same reasons as the 870 shotgun: it's ubiquitous. It's the small-block Chevy of the rimfire world.

Thankfully I do have some experience with firearms considering I am a Californian. I have been shooting guns (mostly handguns, and small bore rifles) since I was 12 yo, or so. I wasn't much of a gun junkie until about 2 years ago when I was given my first gun.

Sadly I live in a very bad part of town and I had all my guns stolen from my house while I was at work one day. It doesn't bother me so much that I was stolen from but that I had something stolen given to me from family.

I did have a 10/22 Ruger, Rem 700 300 Win Mag Rifle, Rem 1100 Semi-Auto 12 GA and a S&W 9mm double stack (1911 imitator).

I did shoot my 10/22 Ruger a ton and I plan on purchasing one as It's a great gun as well as the Rem 1100. I loved the S&W 9mm and the gunsmith I showed it to wanted to buy it.

Thanks for the info on the rifle. It is my least experienced area (high bore rifle) and while I know I might not need a 30-06 it's something I feel is good to have due to it being good to be able to possibly hit something out of 200-400 yard range. A .223 LR won't be able to do much past 400 yards so that is why I stated that distance (not that I plan on hitting anything past 200 yards, but you never know).

I am fully aware that most people can't hit anything at the distance of 500 yards, let alone more. People at those distances need a spotter for the most part (atleast in the military).

Thanks again!

[MaineShark]

Thanks for the info on the rifle. It is my least experienced area (high bore rifle) and while I know I might not need a 30-06 it's something I feel is good to have due to it being good to be able to possibly hit something out of 200-400 yard range. A .223 LR won't be able to do much past 400 yards so that is why I stated that distance (not that I plan on hitting anything past 200 yards, but you never know).

I am fully aware that most people can't hit anything at the distance of 500 yards, let alone more. People at those distances need a spotter for the most part (atleast in the military).

There are better cartridges than .30-06 for rifle use.

Which will be best for you, depends upon what you want to do with it.  I like .270Win, for a basic cartridge, because it has a much flatter trajectory than .30-06, and relatively similar power.  So you can count on the bullet being +/- 3" from the point of aim, anywhere within 300 yards.  Since a 6" circle will cover the vital area of a deer, that means you can take a deer within 300 yards, without worrying about adjusting your scope for range.

But there are a variety of cartridges, depending upon what you want to do with it.  And, as others have noted, NH is pretty hilly and wooded - the chances of needing to shoot longer than 300 yards are slim.

Joe

[Zefferon]

SHOTGUN: SAIGA 12
Russian-made semi-auto mag-fed 12ga shotgun. Comes with 5-round mag. 10-round mags
are available. Based on the AK-47. Very rugged, reliable. One of the fastest cycling rates
of any shotgun. Excellent reputation. For those of you who are local, 2 of them were on
display yesterday (12-10) at Riley's in Hooksett.
http://forum.saiga-12.com

PISTOL: SIG P220 45ACP
Very well made, premium quality pistol. Rather pricey, but worth it. 45ACP is VERY common,
you need something in your collection that shoots it, so get your 45 first. Then get a Ruger
or Smith or Glock that shoots 9mm.

RIFLE: HOWA 1500 SPORTER 300 WIN MAG
Howa 1500s have a reputation for quality and out-of-the-box accuracy at a VERY affordable
price. The 1500 is almost the exact same rifle as the Weatherby Vanguard. The Remington 700 series is reputedly more accurate out-of-the-box but is a lot more
expensive. 300 winnie-mag (300 Winchester Magnum) is the best compromise between cost,
mission, and availability. It shoots flatter and hits harder than it's two common smaller
'siblings', 30-.06 and 308, with only slightly more recoil. The next step up, 300 RUM
(300 Remington Ultra Magnum) is a barrel-burner and kicks like a mule.
Get your 300 winnie-mag first. Then get a bolt-action 308, because there's so much 308 out
there that you need a bakkup long-gun that shoots it. Finally, get a rifle that shoots 30-.06,
because it's fairly common, there's plenty of reloading equipment available for it, there are
a lot of rifles out there that use it, and you might have to use it if you run out of the other
cartridges.
Here is a good ballistics comparison page for these high-power cartridges:
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=PRSC308WA*PRC308WA*R300W1*PRC300WA*PR300UM5*R300UM1-P1

[neggy]

Remington 870 is a good choice

A revolver is a must own, S&W model 60 in stainless

Semi Auto   Glock 22, S&W M&P 40, Sig in 9mm or .40, I'm not a big fan of .45, but they certainly do the job

Compact semi in 9 or 40

.22lr plinker, Rugers are short money but they suck to clean

[ColdSoul]

Yes I have been thinking and I am looking at the following:

Remington Modem 870 Express Super Mag (Home)
Springfield Armory XDM 9mm (Open Carry)
Bushmaster AR-15 .223 Varmint (my fav, seems like a good all around gun)
Mosin Nagant 91/30 (Bolt Action Long Range Rifle)
Ruger 10/22 (Small Caliber Semi Rifle)
(maybe) SKS (Higher Caliber Semi Rifle)

I will most likely buy the following right off the bat, and purchase the others later:
Bushmaster AR-15 .223 Varmint (Expensive at 1,200 but it seems like a really good gun, sub 1" groups at 100 yards, can be used to pick up everything from a rabbit to coyote or even a deer though I might hold off on this until I get to try a SKS, but I think I will mainly be buying it and as many 20-30 rd mags as I can so I don't get left without one)
Springfield Armory XDM 9mm (Should be about 550, I have heard almost nothing but good things about this gun, the only bad thing I heard is the chamber indicator can break off but that it doesn't hurt the guns function at all, I would like a .45 ACP but 9mm is one of the #1 handgun loads in the world, and you should be able to always get some 9mm ammo, and I need a gun to open carry with)

That and the little accessorys should run me about 2000 bucks but atleast I can use the 9mm and Varmint for selfdefense at home, and I will have a open carry. I will also pick up the Mosin if he still has one for 80 bucks, no sense in not, and if I can find a cheap 10/22 I will but nothing expensive accept the 2 listed to start)

[leetninja]

personally for a 45 I liek the 1911 models.  I don't own one yet but when I do it will most likely be a Kimber. 

Right now I swap what I carry depending on my mood.  I have a Sig 226 Blackwater and it is beyond excellent.  I also carry a S&W M&P 40.  I like it because it is light and fits my hand rather nicely.

For a fun rifle I went with a Bushy that shoots 223/556 and I have it pretty nicely set up.  I like keeping it simple I use irons a LOT when at the range or practicing in general I like the challenge as well as the simplicity but I do have optics as well for easier long range. 

I have a little Sig Mosquito as well. You will hear some bad things about them but I can tell you right now Sig is excellent with customer service.  The early models/revision of this pistol had some problems.  Sig replaced every single one that was called in.  Plus you can actually physically go to Exeter for service, customization, and TRAINING classes which rock.

I also nabbed a SKS with a nade launcher for really cheap and I havent even gotten to shoot it yet lol. 

I have a .308 Howa custom rifle with a thumb stock and target barrel and trigger for hunting.  EXTREMELY accurate.  By far this is the best hunting rifle I have ever shot - my uncle has spent THOUSANDS tweaking and modding and trying to get his Remington 700 and his Weatherby rifle to be this good.  I laughed at him when he wanted to trade lol

My newest acquisition is purely home defense related.  I got a Mossberg 500a with an adjustable (ar15 style) stock on it with a surefire pressure switch and constant swith tactical fore grip.  It has two side saddles one holding 6 the other holding 5 and then it holds 8+1 so ... 

I am a very picky person when it comes to firearms.  it took me several months of researching, even testing, and borrowing to actually decide what I liked and didnt like.  I only buy what I really enjoy.  I hate to say it but a great way of figuring it out is KTP - you go up, look at the used sections which are extensive, buy what you think you will like, and then if for some reason you dont like it you simply return it.  My friend does this pretty regularly.  I tend not to do it but that is just me.  I know people do it all the time and the sales people there practically advertise the option. 

I havent had time to take new shots but I will soon. 

http://flickr.com/photos/eyeaml337/sets/72157604595052801/

[Hubbard]

You like firearms so much, why in the hell would you live in CA?

[ColdSoul]

You like firearms so much, why in the hell would you live in CA?

Because I was born there?

[Hubbard]

You like firearms so much, why in the hell would you live in CA?

Because I was born there?

Ah, you're the guy movin here! I won't be at your welcoming, but  iplan to attend the Dec 28 Social Sunday in Keene!