Shire Hours Questons

[mackler]

Hello:

First of all, my first question is: is this the right place to post questions about the Shire Hours system?  Or is there another, more appropriate forum?

Second, a couple friends of mine and i want to begin using Shire Hours to keep track of services we do for each other.  (Actually, one guy is a friend-of-my-friend whom I don't really trust except to fix my car before I pay him)

So my second question is this: I want to send my friend an invitation to Shire Hours.  It asks me to enter a "Credit Limit."  What number should I enter there?

[Barterer]

Hello:

First of all, my first question is: is this the right place to post questions about the Shire Hours system?  Or is there another, more appropriate forum?

For now, this is as good as any.  I've stuck a beta version forum (SimpleMachines 2.0) onto network.shirehours.com but have not made any sections like "user questions" or "service directory" or even opened registration yet. When I get that sorted out, I'll let people here know about it.

Second, a couple friends of mine and i want to begin using Shire Hours to keep track of services we do for each other.  (Actually, one guy is a friend-of-my-friend whom I don't really trust except to fix my car before I pay him)

That's no trouble at all if your friend has elected to let notes pass through him.  If you and your friend have trust, and your friend and his friend have trust, you can pay your friend's friend without opening a credit line with him.  The software links you up so that your friend recieves the payment and hands it to his friend automatically.

So my second question is this: I want to send my friend an invitation to Shire Hours.  It asks me to enter a "Credit Limit."  What number should I enter there?

Enter the maximum value IOU that you would accept from that person as good.  That will be the most he can then pay you in shire hours (or silver) until you begin to pay him back. It's the highest balance you can have through him and the lowest balance he can have through you.  But if he works you half to death, then pays you in ShireHours and skips out, you're SOL.  All trust on ShireHours is up to the users by the limited connections they've made.

[mackler]

author=Barterer link=topic=16664.msg279783#msg279783 date=1230862164]

So my second question is this: I want to send my friend an invitation to Shire Hours.  It asks me to enter a "Credit Limit."  What number should I enter there?

Enter the maximum value IOU that you would accept from that person as good.  That will be the most he can then pay you in shire hours (or silver) until you begin to pay him back. It's the highest balance you can have through him and the lowest balance he can have through you.  But if he works you half to death, then pays you in ShireHours and skips out, you're SOL.  All trust on ShireHours is up to the users by the limited connections they've made.

Well, honestly I wouldn't take an IOU from him, because he's broke most of the time (sorry bro if you're reading this).  That's why we're hoping that a trading system like ShireHours can help us get around the need for money.  He's a great massage therapist, and he can give me a backrub anytime, but I would not take an IOU from him for any value and expect him to have the money to pay me.

Are you saying that underlying the ShireHours system is an assumption that eventually there will be a monetary settlement?  I was under the impression that we could use it to trade services-for-services without ever having any money involved.

[Lloyd Danforth]

FIFY

[Barterer]

Well, honestly I wouldn't take an IOU from him, because he's broke most of the time (sorry bro if you're reading this).  That's why we're hoping that a trading system like ShireHours can help us get around the need for money.  He's a great massage therapist, and he can give me a backrub anytime, but I would not take an IOU from him for any value and expect him to have the money to pay me.

You're assuming that IOUs are in the form of US dollars exclusively.  If you value backrubs and that is the only way the guy has of providing value, set his credit limit for X hours of backrubbing.  Obviously there's a point of diminished returns once your back is nice and rubbed, so you'll also have to consider the timeframe of your compensation.

Are you saying that underlying the ShireHours system is an assumption that eventually there will be a monetary settlement?  I was under the impression that we could use it to trade services-for-services without ever having any money involved.

No. Trading silver or hours is the default.  If you want to be able to cash out at any time, you have to make that clear to your trading partner.  Otherwise, he pays you back with the backrubs or whatever else is acceptable to you.

[mackler]

Well, honestly I wouldn't take an IOU from him, because he's broke most of the time (sorry bro if you're reading this).  That's why we're hoping that a trading system like ShireHours can help us get around the need for money.  He's a great massage therapist, and he can give me a backrub anytime, but I would not take an IOU from him for any value and expect him to have the money to pay me.

You're assuming that IOUs are in the form of US dollars exclusively.  If you value backrubs and that is the only way the guy has of providing value, set his credit limit for X hours of backrubbing.  Obviously there's a point of diminished returns once your back is nice and rubbed, so you'll also have to consider the timeframe of your compensation.

Yes, we definitely want to keep US dollars out of the setup.  Backrubs aren't the only way he has of providing value.  He also grows amazing cilantro which I'm always trying to persuade him to share with me.  I don't know if that affects your answer.  Anyway, assuming I'm going to set his credit limit to X hours, how do I decide what X is?

[Barterer]

He also grows amazing cilantro which I'm always trying to persuade him to share with me.  I don't know if that affects your answer.  Anyway, assuming I'm going to set his credit limit to X hours, how do I decide what X is?

Add the value of the cilantro to the total:

X_total = X_backrub + (cilantro value as Oz.Ag)/2

[William]

He also grows amazing cilantro which I'm always trying to persuade him to share with me.  I don't know if that affects your answer.  Anyway, assuming I'm going to set his credit limit to X hours, how do I decide what X is?

Add the value of the cilantro to the total:

X_total = X_backrub + (cilantro value as Oz.Ag)/2

lol, nice formula

[jaqeboy]

Value in this case is subjective, and a bit experimental. The Shire Hours system lets you raise or lower the credit limits you place on your trading partners when you raise or lower your estimation of the man's trustworthiness - It's a tool for allowing a whole bunch of personal trust evaluations work as a system.

PS: There's a good article either on the FAQ page or in a separate article by barterer on the Shire Hours site - it really helped me understand and appreciate the system.

[mackler]

He also grows amazing cilantro which I'm always trying to persuade him to share with me.  I don't know if that affects your answer.  Anyway, assuming I'm going to set his credit limit to X hours, how do I decide what X is?

Add the value of the cilantro to the total:

X_total = X_backrub + (cilantro value as Oz.Ag)/2

Did you mean to put the open paren in front of the backrub value rather than the cilantro value?  So this:

X_total = (X_backrub + cilantro value as Oz.Ag)/2

[Barterer]

So this:

X_total = (X_backrub + cilantro value as Oz.Ag)/2

No. That would cut your backrub hours in half needlessly!  The /2 is there because of the 2:1 ratio of shire hours to Oz.Ag; it only applies to the silver part.

[mackler]

So this:

X_total = (X_backrub + cilantro value as Oz.Ag)/2

No. That would cut your backrub hours in half needlessly!  The /2 is there because of the 2:1 ratio of shire hours to Oz.Ag; it only applies to the silver part.

Okay, I think I'm starting to get it.     Services are valued in hours, and goods are valued in ouncesAG.

And one hour is worth two ounces?  Is that correct?

So when I enter a credit limit for someone else on the "new connection" page, I can choose hours or ounces, and it doesn't matter which.  But if I choose hours then the number I enter should be half what it would have been if I had chosen ounces?  Or if I choose ounces then the number for credit should be twice what it would be had I chosen hours.  Is that correct?

Thanks!

[Barterer]

Okay, I think I'm starting to get it.     Services are valued in hours, and goods are valued in ouncesAG.

Not necessarily, but some people like to just deal in labor-hours when it's a service.

And one hour is worth two ounces?  Is that correct?

No.  Two ShireHours = one ounce.

So when I enter a credit limit for someone else on the "new connection" page, I can choose hours or ounces, and it doesn't matter which. 

Yes, provided you have no preference.

But if I choose hours then the number I enter should be half what it would have been if I had chosen ounces?  Or if I choose ounces then the number for credit should be twice what it would be had I chosen hours.  Is that correct?

Thanks!

Exactly backwards.  2 SH = 1 Oz.Ag

[jaqeboy]

...
PS: There's a good article either on the FAQ page or in a separate article by barterer on the Shire Hours site - it really helped me understand and appreciate the system.

Here's the article: "Why Shire Hours?"

[Barterer]

Jack - The bulk of that article was written by Ryan Fugger, not me.. but it applies to ShireHours just as well.

The comments and questions from Mackler have led to a revision of the messages people see when assigning someone a credit limit. With each go-around, it gets just a little easier to use.