Mike Barskey pulled over 101 east. Mike taken out of car and around back

[Daien]

Just an amusing aside. Before we left, after they gave us our paperwork, I asked for my two empty beer bottles back. The two cops told me that they were being detained for 'evidence.' I informed them that I had asked the sergeant for them earlier, and he said we could take them home in the trunk of the car. They looked at each other, and then one of them said, "He was just speaking theoretically that you could have them in the trunk. We're holding them for evidence, and you can get them back at the trial." However, they happily returned Mike's gun to him posthaste. 

[Mike Barskey]

Also kind of funny: the cop originally asked me for my license and registration, but got so flustered about me not rolling down my window further and my legally having a gun in my car, etc., that he never did ask for my registration. Whew!

[KBCraig]

I can't fault y'all too much, but while you were polite, calm, and non-confrontational, you forgot Rule #1:

S

T

F

U

!!!

From what I gathered from the phone calls, the open container tickets grew solely out of what y'all told them. Politely engaging in witty banter about brands of beer led directly to a ticket.

Mike, if you'd wanted to toss in an amusing line, when they assured you that you "weren't under arrest" while in handcuffs, you should have asked if you were free to go. 

Role-playing is good practice for these situations. The problem is that you need someone with experience on both sides.

[Russell Kanning]

Never talk to cops. Ever.

that is easier said than done
you might start pleading for your life after a tasing

[Russell Kanning]

I agree that I could do with some education and practice in how to handle this type of situation better.

I am sure the blue light gang will give you plenty of practice ... this is what happens when you seem anything less than totally subservient.

[William]

Also kind of funny: the cop originally asked me for my license and registration, but got so flustered about me not rolling down my window further and my legally having a gun in my car, etc., that he never did ask for my registration. Whew!

This is a very important point. I have personally not received ticket for speeding, dui, unsafe lane change and more all because after they pulled me over, they got all upset and sidetracked about the weapons. Pretty funny. You're not the only one under stress believe me. He got back to the station or in his car and thought, "man, I forgot to ask for his registration". Thing is, they get lots of opportunity to practice being under stress and that's really the thing. It's not about cops per say, it's about being trained to act in high stress situations. To hold back the adrenaline and force yourself to think even when you can't get your hands to stop shaking.

[Russell Kanning]

... then put me in handcuffs while telling me I was not being arrested

My idea is to have a role playing seminar (I was going to call it FARPS: Freedom Activists' Role Playing Seminar ) where a bunch of people gather and take turns role playing cops/judges and activists...

I guess you were arrested (stopped from going your way) ... then let go

ooo ooo .... can I be good cop? I always wanted to play good cop.

[Mike Barskey]

Role-playing is good practice for these situations. The problem is that you need someone with experience on both sides.

Exactly! There are plenty of us with actual experience and hypothetical know-how. Both are important for role-playing fake scenarios, especially when we want our practice scenarios to be extreme.

Never talk to cops. Ever.

that is easier said than done
you might start pleading for your life after a tasing

An excellent point, and true to my personal experience. I knew a lot of things, but when struck with the immediacy, the cold, the stress, the actuality, I faltered.

It's not about cops per say, it's about being trained to act in high stress situations. To hold back the adrenaline and force yourself to think even when you can't get your hands to stop shaking.

Precisely. I think that practicing what you would say in stressful situations will help you actually say it (and remain less stressed) when faced with the real situation.

ooo ooo .... can I be good cop? I always wanted to play good cop.

Absolutely! I'd like to role-play a cop and a judge to see if I can learn anything about how they might feel in the same stressful situation. But mostly, I want to role play various activist positions (e.g., getting arrested, being asked for ID, being yelled at) to practice what I will almost certainly be facing in the relatively near future.

[Daien]

From what I gathered from the phone calls, the open container tickets grew solely out of what y'all told them. Politely engaging in witty banter about brands of beer led directly to a ticket.

Here's a question for everyone. When I was sitting in the passenger seat with the door open, and my feet on the ground outside, the second cop asked me "Which of you has been drinking tonight?"

What would a non-compliant answer have been?

[Daien]

I agree that I could do with some education and practice in how to handle this type of situation better.

I am sure the blue light gang will give you plenty of practice ... this is what happens when you seem anything less than totally subservient.

Thanks, Russell, I really appreciate your support.

[leetninja]

From what I gathered from the phone calls, the open container tickets grew solely out of what y'all told them. Politely engaging in witty banter about brands of beer led directly to a ticket.

Here's a question for everyone. When I was sitting in the passenger seat with the door open, and my feet on the ground outside, the second cop asked me "Which of you has been drinking tonight?"

What would a non-compliant answer have been?

"I drink a lot of water.  It's good for my kidneys!  Would you like some Poland Springs officer - wouldn't want you to get dehydrated whilst lecturing us."

or

"Yes I had a cup of coffee earlier but I ate all the donuts please dont be angry"

[Russell Kanning]

L
Here's a question for everyone. When I was sitting in the passenger seat with the door open, and my feet on the ground outside, the second cop asked me "Which of you has been drinking tonight?"

What would a non-compliant answer have been?

I think there are lots of good stuph you could say.

the question answer:
"Are you looking for a drink?"
"have you been drinking?"
"are you under the influence of DD coffee?"

or
"I have been drinking..... water."

[Tom Sawyer]

From my experiences with pullovers, sometimes with a whole lot at stake.

The cop makes a decision about how things are likely to go in the first 10 seconds of interacting with you. They are concerned if they are in a dangerous situation first off, especially at night. Second they are interested in if they are going to upgrade the pullover into a vehicle search for "contraband", or outstanding warrants arrest.

I have to say that the balance to be struck is up to the individual to make their best call. I have many times driven away from the situation when they could have arrested me.

The balance of showing the cop you aren't trouble for them vs. them realizing they aren't going to be able to walk all over you.

Things you do that are out of the ordinary will get them wondering WTF they are dealing with.

If you have an drivers license from another state, you can tell them you are visiting a friend. But, you have to have your lie figured out first, because they are experienced in tripping you up in the conversation. They only have access to the information in their system and if your story matches that it is pretty much the end of it.

Videotaping the situation can lead to things getting worse. It is somewhat confrontational. Also they lose the ability to use their discretion on what to charge you with. Although you lose some of that when the other cops show up.

Anyway glad ya'll are ok.

[Daien]

Here's a question for everyone. When I was sitting in the passenger seat with the door open, and my feet on the ground outside, the second cop asked me "Which of you has been drinking tonight?"

What would a non-compliant answer have been?

"I drink a lot of water.  It's good for my kidneys!  Would you like some Poland Springs officer - wouldn't want you to get dehydrated whilst lecturing us."

or

"Yes I had a cup of coffee earlier but I ate all the donuts please dont be angry"

I think there are lots of good stuph you could say.

the question answer:
"Are you looking for a drink?"
"have you been drinking?"
"are you under the influence of DD coffee?"

or
"I have been drinking..... water."

Thank you both, it brings up the awareness that I automatically assumed that he was referring to alcohol. Also, I didn't want to answer in such a way as to be caught in a lie later. As I've read these posts and Mike and I have discussed this further, I'm seeing the value of asking non-inflammatory questions back rather than answering.

[www]

Response to an article about 5 kids dying in a fatal accident going 89 in a 35 zone in Ohio in a 96 Grand Prix:

While it is sad to see so many young people die at the wheel it is sadder to know that we fail to save half the 40,000 fatalities we have each year by simply eliminating all speed laws. That was Montana's experience in 1999. During the first five months of the year when there was no speed law the fatality rate was half what it was when a speed law was re-enacted. What happens is people pay more attention to the speed limit signs than they do to the road conditions and the traffic. With no speed law people on average drive 6 to 7% slower, and accidents and fatalities are greatly reduced. When I was asked how fast I could get somewhere I answered safely, or legally? The two were not the same.

Many safe drivers are "speed limit drivers", never exceeding the speed limit. But even safer are drivers who adjust their speed to road and traffic conditions - sometimes it is safer to exceed the limit, other times safer to go slower than the limit. By eliminating all limits, drivers are forced to make decisions not by looking for speed limit signs, but by judging the road and traffic conditions. A rule of thumb is that if no one is passing you, you are going too fast, if cars are piling up behind you, instead of speeding up, pull over and let them pass. What is safe for one driver is definitely not safe for another, making it impossible to put a sign by the road that will reduce the fatality rate by announcing a speed limit. In fact it increases the fatality rate, unless it is completely advisory.

"The phrase 'speed limit' is something of a misnomer. Before 1974, the rule of thumb was to set speed limits at the 85th percentile: 85 percent of the cars should be traveling at or below the limit, while 15 percent of cars could be exceeding it. Speed limits could be used to accurately judge how safe it was to travel on any particular roadway." In 1974, of course, the 55 mph speed limit was put in place to save fuel. Since road conditions change, the speed limits are useless. On New Year's Eve, the number of cars in the ditch indicated that many drivers were trying to keep up with a useless speed limit. You want to ticket 15% of all traffic? What is this, a revenue stream at the expense of 20,000 fatalities per year? I ask anyone receiving a speeding ticket to refuse to pay it, arguing in court that speed limits cause fatalities.