Mike Barskey pulled over 101 east. Mike taken out of car and around back

[Daien]

i like kb's msg above and consider it accurate based on experience.

if you decide to talk , ed naile from the coalition of NH taxpayers suggests making no statements, ending all sentences with question marks.  it's hard but we can practice it at any taproom tuesday.

if you start being completely silent, you should probably be willing to keep it up indefinitely...and that is hard.

I'm not usually at TTs, but would really appreciate this when Mike or someone else sets up practice sessions, i.e. Porcupine Parties With A Purpose! As for the silence, that can be very unnerving to people, and I would anticipate that cops in general wouldn't be comfortable with that. I'm sure those of you who have done just that can attest.

[Daien]

From what I gathered from the phone calls, the open container tickets grew solely out of what y'all told them. Politely engaging in witty banter about brands of beer led directly to a ticket.

Here's a question for everyone. When I was sitting in the passenger seat with the door open, and my feet on the ground outside, the second cop asked me "Which of you has been drinking tonight?"

What would a non-compliant answer have been?

Since the question was directed at both of you, and Mike was the one getting pulled over for speeding, I think it would have been perfectly appropriate for you to not respond (at least on that first asking).  Leave it to the driver to respond.

Thanks, Friday, I appreciate your response.

[Daien]

However, if they are going to issue her a ticket, and cannot confirm her ID, they may take her in.

Thanks, Coconut, good to know.

[Daien]

IIRC, the most they can legally "demand" is your name, address, and what you are doing.  You are not required to show ID (or even have ID), unless you are operating a vehicle, or somesuch.

Interesting, I didn't know this, thank you.

If you're willing to go to jail, you could say:

"Am I required to answer your question?"
-YES YOU ARE.
"I'll be happy to answer it as soon as you show me proof of my obligation.  Otherwise, am I free to go?"

"Could you tell me the RSA which requires me to answer that question?"

Puts them on the defensive.  I've done that quite frequently with building inspectors who just make up "codes" as they go:

"You need to change this."
"Oh?  I was unaware that was the code.  Could you fax me a copy of the relevant section, so I can be sure to fix it properly?"
"Uh, never mind."

They always try and make you justify yourself.  "What right do you have to drive without our permission?" and such.  It's an infantile tactic to try and keep you off-balance.  Get your opponent trying to justify himself, and he forgets about the actual topic.  Well, it works both ways, and if you can get them trying to justify themselves, then they aren't making demands on you.

A rookie with four weeks under an FTO has dealt with more lying sociopaths than the average Middle Class American will encounter in a lifetime.

Well, yeah, but the "average Middle Class American" doesn't choose to get into a profession where you have lying sociopaths for co-workers...

Joe

Thanks for all of this, Joe, I appreciate the perspective.

[Kat Kanning]

Are you going to thank everyone who posts on this thread? 

[Daien]

Great thread everyone, and I really appreciate the feedback. I've never been in a situation like that before, and even talking with others here about non-cooperation was different when I was in the situation with three beefy cops who were confrontational. I agree that I could do with some education and practice in how to handle this type of situation better. I was given a summons for "Transporting Alcoholic Beverages," and have a court date of 1/15/09. Mike will detail his tickets and summons.

BTW, he had a great idea a few months back to role play and practice these type of situations, and I can really see the value of that now. Mahalo to everyone, especially MT Porcupine3 for calling me back and checking up on us.

You seemed so much braver and so much more  in control with Merle

Lloyd, I think the situation was completely different. When Merle came to the house he was in civilian clothes, he didn't identify himself as a PO, I was in my pajamas, and the cats were scampering about. There were no flashing blue lights, no guns, and no handcuffs. I don't know if you're just being sarcastically friendly, but I've never portrayed myself as anything other than what I am; new to this game and grateful for all the education I'm receiving, as well as the wonderful welcome and friendship from everyone.

[Daien]

it makes me sad when the thugs get us to study their evil laws

Can't defeat them without understanding how they think.

Sort of like how doctors have to study diseases, in order to cure their patients.

Just always think of it that way...

Joe

Fantastic analogy, Joe, thanks for the reminder.

[Daien]

it makes me sad when the thugs get us to study their evil laws

Can't defeat them without understanding how they think.
Sort of like how doctors have to study diseases, in order to cure their patients.

so how much of their junk should you have to read?
commie manifestos
un rules
tax laws

I don't think doctors should study disease ... they should study health

I prefer to be naive in the ways of the world for the most part. You are effected by what you dwell on.

Well (and here you can hear me saying what you know I'll say when you say this  ), this is so true as well, which is why I really enjoy your presence and opinions, yours and Kat's both. Two different approaches, work from the inside, or ignore the error and build that which is correct. Thanks, R.

[Daien]

Are you going to thank everyone who posts on this thread? 

Yep! It doesn't cost a darn thing, and I get to chat everyone up! Thanks Kat, thank you especially, soooooooooooo much!!! Mwah!! 

[Kat Kanning]

Awww   
_{I just didn't want to be left out but didn't have any helpful advice.}

[Daien]

Awww   
_{I just didn't want to be left out but didn't have any helpful advice.}

psssssst, everything you do is helpful, just by your very presence. 

[Pat K]

Awww   
_{I just didn't want to be left out but didn't have any helpful advice.}

psssssst, everything you do is helpful, just by your very presence. 

AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
That's so nice.
I think I'M gonna be sick.

[Daien]

Awww   
_{I just didn't want to be left out but didn't have any helpful advice.}

psssssst, everything you do is helpful, just by your very presence. 

AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
That's so nice.
I think I'M gonna be sick.

That's it, Pat K, no more bacon for you!!! 

[Kat Kanning]

Awww   
_{I just didn't want to be left out but didn't have any helpful advice.}

psssssst, everything you do is helpful, just by your very presence. 

Oh good, I just scratched my armpit.  I'm glad it wasn't a total waste. 

[Pat K]

Awww   
_{I just didn't want to be left out but didn't have any helpful advice.}

psssssst, everything you do is helpful, just by your very presence. 

AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
That's so nice.
I think I'M gonna be sick.

That's it, Pat K, no more bacon for you!!! 

Ha! that's what you think!
I have Bacon catches all over the country.
HAAAAAAAA!