What would be ideal act of civil dis in NH?

[NJLiberty]

Luke, people do take prescription medications outside of a doctor's care. It doesn't take much effort to get a prescription, even controlled drug substances, it just requires you to shop around a bit to find a sympathetic doctor or doctors. Doctors don't only prescribe medications for "legitimate medical reasons." There are many doctors who will gladly write you a prescription just to make the money.

Aside from that, people self-medicate all the time, either taking left over medications from a previous illness, or something a friend gives them that they were given when they had something similar, or by bypassing their regular doctor and buying things online, where a doctor writes the prescription without knowing a thing about you.

In a perfect world (from some viewpoints) you would be right, and prescription medicines would only be provided and used for legitimate medical purposes. But that world doesn't exist.

I don't think that's true, Caleb. What if those people were to take that medical marijuana in California, then get addicted to marijuana, then go to another state and because they are addicted, seek out marijuana in that other state and consequently do illegal things in that other state. The federal mafia would have a compelling interest covered by the piece of paper in stopping that from happening, now wouldn't they. Caleb, what you view as "attacking" those with a prescription is in reality a legitimate upholding of law and order within the United States.

Luke, I guess my question is why is it the feds business what Caleb, myself, or yourself, put into our bodies? They are our bodies after all, and whether we choose to ingest marijuana, alcohol, Twinkies, or carrot sticks, I fail to see how it is any of their business.

Just because something is a law does not make it a good law, or a law we should obey, or enforce if we are sitting on a jury. For example, it is illegal in NJ for me to grow currants or gooseberries in my garden because they might be a carrier of a disease that might be transmitted to a type of pine tree that might live near my house. Now I can tell you for certain that there are none of that type of tree anywhere near my home, and yet, if I plant one here I am guilty of breaking the law and could be punished... not that I would ever do such a thing of course I believe they are also illegal to have in NH, or at least to sell the plants to people in NH for those looking for something to do agriculturally as civil disobedience.

I also break the law every fall when the wild fox and concord grapes are ripe because, you better sit down for this one Luke, I actually go out and pick the grapes from the woods in the county park next to my house to supplement the ones I grow for making jellies and grape juice. And right now my father is in violation of the law because he has more then three dozen minnows in our bait tank. And the hawk feather that my daughter has on her book shelf is illegal to possess as well. Oh, and while we are at, I dug a new garden bed yesterday and did not call the state first and have someone come out to make sure it was okay for me to dig in the middle of the field, so chalk up another violation for me. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

You wanted stats
 
USA Typical year
Tobacco deaths - 400,000
Alcohol deaths      80,000
Heroin                  2,000
Cocaine                2,200
Aspirin                  2,000
Cannabis                   0

Califano Report - Joseph Califano former Evil Empire Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare
President of CASA at time of stats   

I agree, an excellent post.


George

[srqrebel]

...For example, it is illegal in NJ for me to grow currants or gooseberries in my garden......I believe they are also illegal to have in NH, or at least to sell the plants to people in NH for those looking for something to do agriculturally as civil disobedience.

Now there's an idea! I know where I can get wild gooseberry bushes for that purpose, in another state... which would probably make them illegally obtained, as well

[FTL_Ian]

Before Luke showed up this thread used to be about civil disobedience.   

[Porcupine_in_MA]

I also break the law every fall when the wild fox and concord grapes are ripe because, you better sit down for this one Luke, I actually go out and pick the grapes from the woods in the county park next to my house to supplement the ones I grow for making jellies and grape juice. And right now my father is in violation of the law because he has more then three dozen minnows in our bait tank. And the hawk feather that my daughter has on her book shelf is illegal to possess as well. Oh, and while we are at, I dug a new garden bed yesterday and did not call the state first and have someone come out to make sure it was okay for me to dig in the middle of the field, so chalk up another violation for me.

Well it looks like we've got a regular menace to society on this message board, everyone hide their kids and old folk. 

[Lloyd Danforth]

His whole family are, apparently,  serial criminals

[NJLiberty]

New Jersey makes it far too easy to be a serial criminal. It seems like they have a law and regulation for everything except breathing.

My father is actually very pro-government. He grew up in the Depression, thinks Roosevelt was a god, and is probably closer to Luke's views than anyone else's on here. The whole thing with the bait is actually a huge step for him. We catch our own bait in traps, and he used to count them all the time to make sure he never had any more than 36 at a time. One day I asked him what possible difference it made if he had 36 or 37 at one time. He told me the difference was that it was against the law to have more than three dozen. To make a long story short, he is still uncomfortable with having more than the law allows, "they must have a good reason for the limit or they wouldn't have set it," but after a lengthy discussion over several days he did concede that it didn't really affect anything if he had a few more than 36. I suspect he still has a figure in his mind that he won't pass, that it is only acceptable to him to have 36 plus so many more, but at least he has come this far.

My daughter I am raising to have a healthy disrespect for rules that don't make sense. She is only six right now so the rest will have to come as we go along. Of course if she doesn't like one of my rules she is very quick to point out where she thinks it is deficient and why she thinks she shouldn't have to listen to me. I would much rather she be like that than the way I had to be, where you had to follow every rule because mom said so They made quite the fuss over her at the gun shop the other day. We went there to get her a trap so she can learn to shoot. Sadly, they don't see many 6 year old girls there, or boys for that matter, or so they tell me. I gave her my old Crosman BB gun that I got when I was 4. I was going to buy her her own, but it practically takes an act of Congress to do that down here.

As far as the currants and gooseberries go in NH, it appears that you are allowed to plant varieties that are especially resistant to blister rust, but only with the permission of the New Hampshire Division of Forest and Lands. That is according to the extension at the Univ. of New Hampshire. You apparently have to apply for a permit and they will tell you what varieties they will let you grow. That is similar to NJ's laws. I can grow black currants here if I apply for a permit, pay them $75, tell them exactly where I am raising them, give them access to my property to inspect them, etc. Thankfully they are easy to propagate once you have them

George

[Nathan.Halcyon]

I've never found such activism to hold much value, myself. Living in a state of passive disregard and disobedience seems to have a more positive effect, and so far, is proving to be far less dangerous. The ratio of cost to reward seems more equitable, and often highly profitable.

I tend to prefer passive protest (be it as simple as clothing bearing a message, or as extreme as body art, or be it a book collection, or flying an inverted flag scrawled with the phrase "Stars and Stripes of Corruption" - It is often easier to convey your message when you are confronted and questioned, rather than to be the one to confront), personal engagement with individuals (family, friends, co workers, business partners, sometimes even strangers at the bar or people I meet when out for a ride), as well as participation in black and gray markets, as the costs of activism more often than not outweigh the rewards, which if anything at all comes of it, usually consist of platitudes and placations from an authority I don't recognize and won't lower myself to engage in such a manner, along with the endorphin rush. You debase yourself, and empty your pockets for it; for supplies, to endure loss of productivity, as well as the occasional absorption of fines, court costs, and legal fees, etc. Few minds are swayed, and there seems to be no shortage of mouths filled with ridicule and spite, and an even greater number of apathetic persons.

I'm pretty much an agorist, I suppose, though I tend to identify as the more generic market anarchist. What act of civil disobedience is more profound than to simply live one's life in an ethical and productive manner, beholden to no authority but your own, and in full disregard of (and ideally also economic opposition to) the State? That's the ideal in my point of view, which admittedly I fall short of more often than I would like.

I'd say more, but I've got to stop. In extreme need of sleep here.

[Vitruvian]

I agree with you, Nathan.

[David]

Um, hey guys, is it yet not obvious that Luke S, believes that he, and by extension his gov't has the god given right to control others.  He is likely to desperately try to elect a repub, any repub, so that the dems are unable to use the powers of gov't that have been expanded by the repubs.  The gop made the precedents, the dems just use them.  Luke doesn't believe or understand this.  Your debating him has clearly not changed this. 

[FTL_Ian]

Agreed, David.  He's a total troll, and has successfully derailed several threads.  I'd split the off topic stuff out of this thread, but it's not my thread, so I don't feel right about it.

[J’raxis 270145]

Ok Free Libertarian, I'm ready to address the rest of what you said.

What about warrantless wiretaps, Patriot Act, prohibition, airport gestapo, etc. aren't those things unpiece of paperal ....doesn't any of that concern you? Can the president pick and choose which laws he'll follow? Is he special or "more equal" than you and I ?

Warrentless wiretaps are a tough issue. While technically unconstitutional, it can be hard to doubt the benefit of being able to listen to terrorists when terrorists are making phone calls. It might even save us from the next Sept 11. Given the stakes involved here, frankly there's no time for a constitutional amendment right now. This has to be done immediately.

Have you not been arguing all along that the basis for many of your beliefs (e.g., being opposed to religious discrimination) is that the Constitution prohibits something? Care to explain now why you think you should use your own judgment as to the merits of Constitutional prohibitions on this one topic?

Sounds to me like you don't believe in blindly following the law when you believe the law is wrong. Am I wrong?

[John Edward Mercier]

Warrantless wiretaps are not unconstitutional... the use of information gained from them for prosecution is.

[Dave Ridley]

more ideas added above...some are requests from u guys

idling a car for over 30 minutes when the temperature is between zero and 32 degrees.  class A misdemeanor under state law apparently! One could put three homeless people, or just friends, in the car and heat them up.   that way you'd be doing something constructive not just harmless.  any ways you can think of to make such an act even more constructive and harmless? something that could minize any pollution that might result?

carrying an industrial hemp seed
planting an industrial hemp seed (?)

placing window tint over a certain density, on certain car windows

also...remember gandhi's dandi salt march?  Where he walked from one part of india to another and made illegal salt at the ocean?    i wonder if there is something like that we could do here...

[Kat Kanning]

Combine Johnny Appleseed, the industrial hemp idea, and the walk idea.  You'd walk across the state seeding it with hemp.

[lildog]

Warrantless wiretaps are not unconstitutional... the use of information gained from them for prosecution is.

John, I would have to disagree.

Wiretaps fall under the 4th.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Based on my reading of that the government would need to state upfront exactly what is being searched and what they were going to search for.