What would be ideal act of civil dis in NH?

[tracysaboe]

I'm reminded of the parallel Heinlein drew between hunger strikes and temper tantrums.

The celibacy issue is just another extension of that -cutting off the nose to spite the face as far as I'm concerned...

Fasting can easily be seen as a hunger strike if done incorrectly.  It is meant to atone for mistakes, calm distress, reform those you love, or purify yourself to regain focus.  Celibacy is a very personal decision for the purpose of self-control and conserving the strength of my will.

Fasting can actually be quite healthy, from a medical standpoint, if done correctly -- If you have the proper frame of mind. After three days, you actually don't notice that you're hungery anymore. A person can go for 30 days or more w/o food, and it helps to cleanse the toxins and stuff out of your body. I know people you fast out of purely self interested health reasons. They feel better afterwords. And w/o all those excito-toxins, chemicals, heavy medals, etc running around in their blood-stream they tend to think more clearly as well.

You have to make sure you drink lots of water though. Other-wise, you'll just make yourself sick.- You might make yourself sick anyway, if you're not of sound body and mind when you take it up.

I have fasted a few different times in my life, just to help sort my own life out and it was very rewarding and benificial. It's easier to think about important things that matter, if you're not worried about the normal day-to-day grind.

Of course, that was before I developed a vagus nerve disorder. I can't do it anymore.

But to call fasting silly, is a bit naive. To each his own. If Mike actually derives benifit from the excercise, then he's not cutting off his nose to spite his face. He's acting in his own self interest.

Celabacy on the other hand, well, as a Christians I believe people should be celebate untill marriage. But after you're married, it's actually wrong to NOT have sex with your spouce when your partner wants it. I'm not going to take a vow of celebacy -- even for a short time -- because that would mean breaking a greator vow that I made when I married.

As my brother puts it. "It's just as wrong to have sex before marriage as it is to not have sex with your spouse after marriage."

Tracy

[Dave Ridley]

<<I will be in Boston at MassCann Hempfest on September 17, with my 9 foot joint.>>

Is there a way to paint a URL on that thing?

[Michael Fisher]

But to call fasting silly, is a bit naive. To each his own. If Mike actually derives benifit from the excercise, then he's not cutting off his nose to spite his face. He's acting in his own self interest.

Fasting is often a method of self-suffering with no self-interest at all, purely for the benefit of others.

Celabacy on the other hand, well, as a Christians I believe people should be celebate untill marriage. But after you're married, it's actually wrong to NOT have sex with your spouce when your partner wants it. I'm not going to take a vow of celebacy -- even for a short time -- because that would mean breaking a greator vow that I made when I married.

As my brother puts it. "It's just as wrong to have sex before marriage as it is to not have sex with your spouse after marriage."

Not if your spouse voluntarily joins you in celibacy as well, as my wife has done.  As a Christian, you probably believe that Jesus was celibate, so it's obviously not all bad. 

[tracysaboe]

Fasting is often a method of self-suffering with no self-interest at all, purely for the benefit of others.

IF, your goal is self suffering, then in a more general sense, it is your self interest that makes you want to suffer. By the same token, when I give to charity I do it out of my own self interest of wanting that money to do the good the charity does.

Anyway, enough with semantics.

Not if your spouse voluntarily joins you in celibacy as well, as my wife has done. 

I suppose, but them am I to refuse her if she's week and wants to break her vow? Which promise do I keep. Do I play tough love and say no? I honestly don't believe such a pact would be a healthy thing for a marriage. But, to each his own.

As a Christian, you probably believe that Jesus was celibate, so it's obviously not all bad. 

Yes. And Paul was as well. One of the gifts of the spirit is celibacy. Paul talks about those people who are capible of not casting a "way-ward eye." Those people don't get married though.

Tracy

[polyanarch]

Abstinance makes the Church grow Fondlers...

I have a deep-seated suspicion of anyone who supposedly rejects the needs of the body/spirit.  Sometimes they are speaking out of one side of their mouth and picking your pocket with the other.

Anyone who truely is forsaking the needs of the body/spirit for their own good and enlightenment and gets some sort of enjoyment out of this...well, it's a free world and that is their choice but it creeps me out

I'm not into BDSM myself but that is a personal choice.  Self-deprivation seems like a form of masochism to me.  Whatever gets you off.  I've met a few vegans who are into the self-pain of depriving themselves.  If that is what it takes to make them happy then more power to them.  I enjoy food too much for that.  I'm a happy omnivore.  I'll eat anything that can't eat me first. Or at least give it a try once.

But I'm too selfish  I guess.  I like my comforts.  We only live once in my universe.  Your mileage may vary.

[Kat Kanning]

I have a deep-seated suspicion of anyone who supposedly rejects the needs of the body/spirit.  Sometimes they are speaking out of one side of their mouth and picking your pocket with the other.

Reminds me of a chapter from The Education of Little Tree called "Trading with a Christian" 

[polyanarch]

Reminds me of a chapter from The Education of Little Tree called "Trading with a Christian" 

I have been very much influenced by "old Bob"

"I don't trust a man who talks about ethics when he is picking my pocket. But if he is acting in his own self-interest and says so, I have usually been able to work out some way to do business with him."

"Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proved innocent."

"The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, withou a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history."

"Always yield to temptation, It may never pass your way again."

"Of all the nonsense that twists the world, the concept of 'altruism' is the worst. People do what they want to, every time. If it pains them, to make a choice- if the 'choice' looks like a 'sacrifice' -- you can be sure that it is no nobler than the discomfort caused by greediness... the necessity of having to decide between two things you want when you can't have both. The ordinary bloke suffers every time he chooses between spending a buck on beer or tucking it away for his kids, between getting up to go to work and losing his job. But he always chooses that which hurts least or pleasures most. The scoundrel and the saint make the same choices...."


Robert Anson Heinlein

Yeah, he's had an effect on me.

[KBCraig]

Self-deprivation seems like a form of masochism to me.  Whatever gets you off.

Can you get off on abstinance? 

[polyanarch]

Can you get off on abstinance? 

*bow*

Not THAT is funny!

[jgmaynard]

Let's see........... Yet ANOTHER post gone way off topic, accomplishing nothing!

How refreshing! 

JM

[Kat Kanning]

It's hard to plan civil disobedience for next year when we don't know what's going to become illegal yet!   

[jgmaynard]

We KNOW private property is at the whims of government now, thanks to the quinque tyrannis*.

And we know that we have 95%+ support for our fight against it.

If we don't do something related to that, we're wasting THE issue of the year.

Now what to do about it? That is the question.........

JM

* Five tyrants.

[KBCraig]

We KNOW private property is at the whims of government now, thanks to the quinque tyrannis*.

I've been called a kinky tyrant. 

[John]

Mike's!  And the reasons should be obvious.

(I will withhold coments as to celibacy, abstinence, and other tempting topics for now.)

[Michael Fisher]

Self-deprivation seems like a form of masochism to me.? Whatever gets you off.

Can you get off on abstinance??

Nope.  Not the type of abstinance I've got.