Barskey pulled over per P411 (01-28-09)

[BillKauffman]

No, you are using the sidewalk as intended (walking) and dancing a jig while walking does not infringe on anyone else's individual equal access right of way to use the sidewalk to walk upon either.

If you were to block the right of way (a common right) on a collectively owned sidewalk then it would be a rightful us of force to remove you.

There are no specific rules against "dancing a jig" so long as you don't block the right of way.

The Keene Freedom Fest did not infringe on anyone else's individual equal access right of way to use Railroad Square. There was plenty of space for other people to set up booths, or dance, or play music, or sell stuff, or do whatever they wanted. If you argue that a table/tent set up for the KFF was infringing upon another's right to set up a table at that exact same spot, then you'd have to also argue that someone dancing a jig on a sidewalk prevented someone else from walking at that exact same space on the sidewalk at that moment.

The KFF (an open air meeting) is not the intended use of the collectively owned Railroad Square. Just as you can not use a public building for something it is not intended to be used for without prior permission from our delegated authority.

He specifically gave the example of dancing a jig while walking. So long as you don't infringe on any other individual equal access/use of the right of way you are fine.

[Ogre]

Bill, did you read the law as posted?

Outdoor periodic events shall include athletic exhibitions, public dances, circuses, carnivals, live performances, exhibitions, promotional activities and any similar periodic activity open and available to the public which is conducted outdoors.

That doesn't say anything about anyone blocking or bothering or having any effect on anyone.  The law specifically says that a "public dance" is illegal with a permit.

[BillKauffman]

Bill, did you read the law as posted?

Outdoor periodic events shall include athletic exhibitions, public dances, circuses, carnivals, live performances, exhibitions, promotional activities and any similar periodic activity open and available to the public which is conducted outdoors.

That doesn't say anything about anyone blocking or bothering or having any effect on anyone.  The law specifically says that a "public dance" is illegal with a permit.

Yes, so to answer Barskey's question - Railroad Square is considered "collectively owned" property just like a "collectively owned" building. You must ask permission to do the above events listed including an "open air meeting" because that is not the intended purpose of Railroad Square.

[FTL_Ian]

I don't know about you, Bill, but I don't have a "delegated authority" outside myself.  Mike, did you delegate your authority to the men and women calling themselves the City of Keene?

[BillKauffman]

I don't know about you, Bill, but I don't have a "delegated authority" outside myself.  Mike, did you delegate your authority to the men and women calling themselves the City of Keene?

Yes - It comes back to the same question Ian as the couch incident.

Essentially you are going to try and go into court and argue against the "social contract theory".

Or, as an act of civil disobedience, you willingly accept the punishment in order to bring the issue to the larger "court of public opinion"

MLK did this by the use of television to show people not living in the south how people of a certain color were having their individual rights violated.

Good luck with trying to explain to the court of public opinion the benefits of a poly-centric system of rules to get people fired up enough that they demand your or Barskey's release or wholesale throwing out the social contract theory.

It is an esoteric argument to say the least. Maybe 1 in 1000 know anything about social contract theory - maybe 1 in 10,000 have heard of "poly-centric law". Seeing people being attacked with clubs, dogs and firehouses for peaceable assembly made an immediate and visceral impression.

[Mike Barskey]

You must ask permission to do the above events listed including an "open air meeting" because that is not the intended purpose of Railroad Square.

What is the intended purpose of Railroad Square, Bill? And who decided that?

Mike, did you delegate your authority to the men and women calling themselves the City of Keene?

I did not. Thanks for driving home (hopefully) the foundation of this argument. It doesn't matter what their ordinance says or how you define "public" or what the intended purpose of Railroad Square is. It only matters that some people (the cops and employees of "city of keene") are initiating aggression against someone else (me).

[Mike Barskey]

Good luck with trying to explain to the court of public opinion the benefits of a poly-centric system of rules. to get people fired up enough that they demand your or Barskey's release or wholesale throwing out the social contract theory.

That sounded sarcastic, though it's difficult to tell in a text-based medium. If it was sarcastic, then it's apparent that you are not willing to get fired up enough to demand my release or the throwing out of the social contract theory. That's a shame, especially if you believe the social contract theory is wrong. Hopefully others will stand up for their beliefs. I know I will.

[BillKauffman]

That's a shame, especially if you believe the social contract theory is wrong. Hopefully others will stand up for their beliefs. I know I will.

Mike, most people don't even know what the social contract theory IS let alone wanting to substitute poly-centric law. I think a system of common law with juries is better than judge-made law or legislative law (privilege) but I for one am not willing to sign onto a system of poly-centric law quite yet.

I am also more partial to civic republicanism's version of freedom then classical liberalism's.

I personally think addressing the issue of distributive justice is a more fruitful approach to reform but to each it's own. State welfarism and the police state are the price we pay for state capitalism in my book. Just as terrorism is the price we pay for empire.

Get rid of state capitalism (neo-liberalism and empire building) and there is no need for a police state and welfare. That is why I am a left-libertarian and not an "emotive" anarcho-capitalist.

[Mike Barskey]

Mike, most people don't even know what the social contract theory IS let alone wanting to substitute poly-centric law.

I think you're right. I also think, however, that most people know that victimless crimes are wrong, somehow (they may not understand how, but they "feel" it). I think that even the many people who think that some force is "necessary" in a society realize that one size does not fit all when they see their previous laws harming innocent, peaceful people.

And those people are the ones I hope will learn and progress when I stand up for my rights, even against imminent abuse.

[BillKauffman]

most people know that victimless crimes are wrong, somehow (they may not understand how, but they "feel" it)

I think that even the many people who think that some force is "necessary" in a society realize that one size does not fit all when they see their previous laws harming innocent, peaceful people.

The calculus is then over whether or not we can live by a system of rules (without rule makers and rulership) and whether or not the system allows for those rules to be changed.

So I prefer town meeting where I can act as my own legislator rather than elected representatives.

[Russell Kanning]

For the Keene Freedom Fest!
Holy fuck! Are there no criminals or crimes to investigate?

crimes against the state are a high priority

[Russell Kanning]

Looks like the Keene Police have it in for Freestaters.

Encourage pro-freedom people to work for the Keene government?  Encourage pro-freedom people to move just outside of Keene?  How about everyone move to Seabrook   

huh?
if so ... we should all run from NH

[Pat McCotter]

We instinctively do treat individual, common rights with respect.

We use the terms on a sidewalk like "pardon me", "excuse me" and "allow me"...

You haven't lived in a large urban center, BK! And it sounds like you haven't visited one, either! There are some in these areas who think the sidewalk/road is theirs to use as they see fit - your desire to walk/drive through their space notwithstanding.

[BillKauffman]

We instinctively do treat individual, common rights with respect.

We use the terms on a sidewalk like "pardon me", "excuse me" and "allow me"...

You haven't lived in a large urban center, BK! And it sounds like you haven't visited one, either! There are some in these areas who think the sidewalk/road is theirs to use as they see fit - your desire to walk/drive through their space notwithstanding.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule as it was just a generality.

[Tom Ploszaj]

This is what he's accused of being in violation of

ARTICLE XI.  OUTDOOR EVENTS*

__________
*Cross references:  Environment, ch. 38.
State law references:  Open-air meetings, RSA 286:2 et seq.; shows, carnivals, RSA 321-A:1 et seq.

__________

DIVISION 1.  GENERALLY

Sec. 46-621.  Description.
Outdoor periodic events shall include athletic exhibitions, public dances, circuses, carnivals, live performances, exhibitions, promotional activities and any similar periodic activity open and available to the public which is conducted outdoors. For the purposes of this article, "promotional activities" shall not include promotional sales activities which are held at the normal place of business of the sponsor unless they are activities of a type that involve exhibitions, public dances, circuses, carnivals, live performances and other activities of a similar type which do not relate directly to the sale of the product of the business.
(Code 1970, § 1814.0)
Secs. 46-622--46-640.  Reserved.

DIVISION 2.  LICENSE

Sec. 46-641.  Required.
Any person who wishes to have an outdoor event as described in section 46-621 shall obtain a license from the city clerk.

Sec. 46-642.  Fee.
The fee for a license granted under this division shall be as set forth in the schedule of fees in appendix B to this Code for the duration as specified on the license for activities of a commercial nature. However, no fee shall be required for activities conducted by charitable organizations, by governmental agencies, by neighborhood groups, or by religious organizations, unless such activity is generally considered to be a commercial enterprise.
(Code 1970, § 1814.0)
Secs. 46-643--46-670.  Reserved.

It appears that my read is that that the permit is relative to commerical business.  Twice, comercial enterprises and sales of business are mentioned as the reason for a fee.  Governmental agencies are required to have a permit if it is comemercial.  The protection racket city wants their take in sales!

The KPD would have to provide evidence that there was a commercial enterpriise being conducted. If not this could be a case of harrassment or abuse of power since  "ignorance of the law is no excuse" on their partsince they had all this time to make their case.