IRS Rejects 501c3 Status!

[Seamas]

By beating the IRS I did not mean paying no tax.  Rather, I meant minimizing the amount that goes to the state and maximizing the amount that goes to freedom oriented charities.

Furthermore, I wonder what furthers freedom better: 1) making a lot of money and paying a chunk of it to the state and a chunk of it to freedom oriented charities or 2) living in a hole in the ground, selling harvested firewood to survive and forking over the odd $5 to the LSF.

The second option is a bit of a caricature, but one based on many posts unless I'm missing something.  Perhaps I am missing out on how one can both make a reasonable living and a meaningful financial contribution to the charities of one's choice while not contributing a single dollar to the state.  If so, I'd sure like to know how that can be accomplished.

I have sympathy for your "opting out of the system" idea in terms of not paying taxes but I?d prefer to fight and beat the IRS rather than hide from them.  Chacun ? son go?t.

That's a hoot. Believing you can beat the IRS by using the IRS code. The best you can do is better than the poor guy who doesn't try. As long as the government needs more money, the code will continually be adjusted to prevent you from winning.

Cathleen

[Kat Kanning]

I'd take option #2.

[Russell Kanning]

Furthermore, I wonder what furthers freedom better: 1) making a lot of money and paying a chunk of it to the state and a chunk of it to freedom oriented charities or 2) living in a hole in the ground, selling harvested firewood to survive and forking over the odd $5 to the LSF.

The second option is a bit of a caricature, but one based on many posts unless I'm missing something. Perhaps I am missing out on how one can both make a reasonable living and a meaningful financial contribution to the charities of one's choice while not contributing a single dollar to the state. If so, I'd sure like to know how that can be accomplished.

Choice one feeds the state
Why does choice two have to be a hole in the ground? Why not try to make as much money as you can without the government knowing about it?

[Russell Kanning]

Maybe this guy can join us.

[Michael Fisher]

Seamas, I entirely understand your ordeal.

The government has set up a system in which you either:
1)  Pay them a portion of your paycheck before you make a donation; OR
2)  The charity of your choice must change radically and submit to countless regulations.

It is definitely a barrier to donation for lawful individuals.  I agree.  However, the LSF has decided to reserve its complete freedom.

There are many 501c3 charities out there, including some with a mission identical to our own.  It's all a question of who you trust more with your money.

[tracysaboe]

After thinking about this, I think I'm glad the LSFdoesn't have this Tax Exempt Statis.

I don't know, after reading about all the Tax Exempt organizations (like the Ford, Rockefeller, and Carnegie foundations and how they were corrupted into being very pro-state organizations.) and charities for Breast Cancer, MS, etc., and how they aren't really allow to do anything to actually try to cure diseases because now that they have Tax Exempt Statis they have to comply with the Miriods of FDA and FTC rules.

Look at even the NRA and the NTA and many of these supposedly pro-liberty associations -- and how they've really crept away from their original purposes.

It's my thinking that this wouldn't have happened nearly as much if they didn't have that 501(c) statis.

Anyway.

Tracy

[Seamas]

Thank you all for your interesting and respectful replies.  Yes, option 1 feeds the state, nevertheless donating to 501c3 charities does not.  Basically the money passes through from the earner to the recipient and bypasses the state, hence its allure.

In terms of your reply to option 2, I presented "living in a hole and selling harvested firewood" as a caricature but also as an option that would legally work if one refused to pay a cent to the state.  One person replied that they would chose that option and I have great respect for them if they live that way. 

The problem is that almost everyone lives somewhere in between living in a hole and being a plutocrat who can game the system so well that it works for them (Bill Gates springs to mind) more than they work for it.  For almost all of us, the more money one makes, the more scrutiny one will come under.  Owning one's own business allows one to get out of withholding, etc. and do a lot of interesting things (legal or not) that allow one to avoid/evade taxes.  I know this but the more one?s business is successful, the more likely that one will get nailed if one is simply not paying taxes.   

It?s quite a conundrum and if someone here knows the way out I?d sure like to hear about it - although (if it is, as I suspect, illegal) they?d be damn stupid to post it in a public forum ? so I guess I won?t hear about it; if it exists.  Ha, ha, that?s another conundrum ? if I am ignorant no one who practices otherwise can educate me; they can only say that I?m wrong without providing any evidence.  I?ll shut up now.

Furthermore, I wonder what furthers freedom better: 1) making a lot of money and paying a chunk of it to the state and a chunk of it to freedom oriented charities or 2) living in a hole in the ground, selling harvested firewood to survive and forking over the odd $5 to the LSF.

The second option is a bit of a caricature, but one based on many posts unless I'm missing something. Perhaps I am missing out on how one can both make a reasonable living and a meaningful financial contribution to the charities of one's choice while not contributing a single dollar to the state. If so, I'd sure like to know how that can be accomplished.

Choice one feeds the state
Why does choice two have to be a hole in the ground? Why not try to make as much money as you can without the government knowing about it?

[KBCraig]

Thank you all for your interesting and respectful replies.  Yes, option 1 feeds the state, nevertheless donating to 501c3 charities does not.  Basically the money passes through from the earner to the recipient and bypasses the state, hence its allure.

Allure frequently distorts reality; that's the intent of advertisting, no?

While it seems on the surface that 501c3 donations bypass the state and leave the IRS out of it completely (that's the allure), the reality is that the state is heavily involved in the process. "Bypassing the state" requires scads of state employees approving the bypass, and then there's wasted overhead on compliance. Net result: more state, less charity.

Kevin

[Russell Kanning]

It's quite a conundrum and if someone here knows the way out I'd sure like to hear about it - although (if it is, as I suspect, illegal) they'd be damn stupid to post it in a public forum – so I guess I won't hear about it; if it exists.

Do you really want to know a way out of the federal taxing game? If you think that they have a legitimate claim to your income, then wouldn't it be cheating to go around them? If on the other hand you see taxes as theft of your money, then avoiding them is not unlawful or immoral. That is your first decision. Is it your money or their money?

[Russell Kanning]

IRS Examination of All Saints.
http://www.allsaints-pas.org/all_saints_church.htm

Church could lose tax-exempt status for anti-war sermon
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-11-08-antiwar-sermon_x.htm

[Dreepa]

? However, the LSF has decided to reserve its complete freedom.

You mean the IRS decided for you.

[Lloyd Danforth]

? However, the LSF has decided to reserve its complete freedom.

You mean the IRS decided for you.

Yes, you should, at least, change the title of this topic

[Michael Fisher]

? However, the LSF has decided to reserve its complete freedom.

You mean the IRS decided for you.

We allowed the IRS to reject us because we don't want the LSF to change into something it's not.

[Lloyd Danforth]

? However, the LSF has decided to reserve its complete freedom.

You mean the IRS decided for you.

We allowed the IRS to reject us because we don't want the LSF to change into something it's not.

Yea.....thats the ticket!....go with that

[tracysaboe]

It?s quite a conundrum and if someone here knows the way out I?d sure like to hear about it - although (if it is, as I suspect, illegal) they?d be damn stupid to post it in a public forum ? so I guess I won?t hear about it; if it exists.

Do you really want to know a way out of the federal taxing game? If you think that they have a legitimate claim to your income, then wouldn't it be cheating to go around them? If on the other hand you see taxes as theft of your money, then avoiding them is not unlawful or immoral. That is your first decision. Is it your money or their money?

Of course the IRS doesn't see it that way, and some of us have families to take care of and wouldn't be able to do that very well from jail (or worse. I guess I have life insurence . . . .?)

Tracy