IRS Rejects 501c3 Status!

[Dave Ridley]

With regard to 501 c stroke backlash whatever, My thinking is:  quit wasting time on it.  The best thing you can do with that kind of government hoopage is just never think about it or invest any time in it.    If you do make the investment of time, you could lose all that time and never get anytying out of it, or you could just end up more controlled and scrutinized.   

How did the FSP benefit from seeking 501 c 3?  I can't point to a single benefit but we did lose members over it.

I'll be more likely to donate if you are NOT a  501 c 3 and i suspect that is the case with others.

As for the liberty dollar, and future silver donations you may receive, why not just that kind of thing directly to a scholarship receipient on top of the 1K you are already giving them?

[Lloyd Danforth]

I'm pretty sure if we use materials we buy or are donated, don't pay ourselves for making or selling, there are no profits involved to tax.

[Michael Fisher]

Do you think we'll have to file?  If so, then we already should have during the past 2 years.   

[Michael Fisher]

How did the FSP benefit from seeking 501 c 3?? I can't point to a single benefit but we did lose members over it.

I'll be more likely to donate if you are NOT a? 501 c 3 and i suspect that is the case with others.

Exactly.

As for the liberty dollar, and future silver donations you may receive, why not just that kind of thing directly to a scholarship receipient on top of the 1K you are already giving them?

We convert all non-FRN donations to FRNs.  If you want to donate directly to a recipient then I can give your contact info to a recipient.  Your choice.

[cathleeninnh]

Charities don't have to file a 990 if the donations total less than $25,000. I think that is the number. Not hard to look up.

Cathleen

[Michael Fisher]

Charities don't have to file a 990 if the donations total less than $25,000. I think that is the number. Not hard to look up.

Cathleen

Yep, you're right.

We don't even file unless we make more than $25,000 per year, which is applicable for the forseeable future.  After that, we only have to file 990-EZ unless we make over $100,000.

[tracysaboe]

How many applicants do you think you'll have next year?

Tracy

[Michael Fisher]

How many applicants do you think you'll have next year?

Tracy

If we get rid of the application fee, then we can try to get many applicants without much downside - that's difficult with a $50 fee, and we ended up sending the $50 back to this year's non-recipient.

Our initial vote to eliminate the application fee failed because we're not sure if people will be honest without some type of fee, but we'll probably end up reducing it to a $10 annual "processing" fee.  This will help cover some costs, like the PO Box or another mass mailing to all private schools in New Hampshire.

[Michael Fisher]

I just sent out a letter to the Board about this and about 501c3 status and my conclusion that we should not pursue it:



Hello all!

The IRS deadline has come and passed.  I've spoken on the phone with all of you except for Dave and I think we are in a position that we can make a decision.  At [clipped] the other day, [clipped] all told me that if we choose non-profit status instead of tax-deductible status, we should communicate that as a central value of the LSF in order to help our fundraising efforts among liberty-oriented people - our primary audience.

All three said they opposed 501c3 status and would be more likely to donate more money if we refuse to seek 501c3 determination.  I believe this applies to many liberty-oriented individuals.

Of course, you must consider that I am biased because my principles no longer allow me to support the exploitation of tax-deductibility as an incentive.  I do not want to reinforce the belief that people will not donate without a government-enforced incentive to do so.  I also have no desire to change the LSF's mission to meet the demands of the government.

I believe the LSF should stay a non-profit and incorporate the above changes into its fundraising strategy in a public and transparent manner.  If some donors wish to save money on their taxes by donating to a 501c3 charity, then there are countless 501c3 charities they can donate to, including the Children's Scholarship Fund.

Even if the LSF is not wildly successful, I think this is the best thing for the LSF to do considering our core donor audience.  As a non-profit, we will not need to file federal income tax forms until we make over $25,000 per year.

Do you agree?  Should we make a motion?

We also need to make a new motion to change the $50 one-time application fee to something else like a $10 annual processing fee since our last motion to eliminate the fee failed.

Thanks!


Mike

[HardyMachia]

Get the 501c3 status.

I'm self employed.

I make money.

I can either give LSF $1000 of money I earned (with 501c3 status), or I can give the LSF $700 with the other $300 going to subsidize the war, public schools, bridges in alaska to no where as part of my income taxes.

I'd rather all of my money be fully tax deductible -- 501c3 status is not asking others to give me special breaks. It lets me keep all of my money and use it the way I want.

Hardy

[HardyMachia]

I believe the LSF should stay a non-profit and incorporate the above changes into its fundraising strategy in a public and transparent manner.? If some donors wish to save money on their taxes by donating to a 501c3 charity, then there are countless 501c3 charities they can donate to, including the Children's Scholarship Fund.

How is this different than not applying for the 501c3? By incorporating and incorporating as a non-profit you are playing the system to secure government protection with the corporate shield and avoiding paying taxes on any money raised. Isn't this inconsistent?

Hardy

[Michael Fisher]

I believe the LSF should stay a non-profit and incorporate the above changes into its fundraising strategy in a public and transparent manner.? If some donors wish to save money on their taxes by donating to a 501c3 charity, then there are countless 501c3 charities they can donate to, including the Children's Scholarship Fund.

How is this different than not applying for the 501c3? By incorporating and incorporating as a non-profit you are playing the system to secure government protection with the corporate shield and avoiding paying taxes on any money raised. Isn't this inconsistent?

Hardy

Yes, it is inconsistent, but nobody's perfect.  501c3 status is a form of indirect tax subsidy, and regardless of everyone's denial of this fact, even the IRS refers to it in this way.

The "steal money from others indirectly" of 501c3 status is much different than the "don't steal from this organization" of non-profit status, though both are similar.  I'm sure you probably disagree, but I refuse to believe that people will not donate without a government-enforced tax-subsidy incentive to do so.

[Russell Kanning]

I'm self employed.

I make money.

I would recommend that you stop paying federal income taxes if you believe they use it for war.

They rejected the 501c3 application of the LSF. It seems like a sign from God to me.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Ditto

[tracysaboe]

The "steal money from others indirectly" of 501c3 status is much different than the "don't steal from this organization" of non-profit status, though both are similar.

OK, well you still sound like some leftist who doesn't understand the difference between corporate welfare, and companies simply forking over less of their hard-earned money to begin with.

The IRS "sees" it that way because they're goons who want you to bow at there feet. But the fact is getting 501c3 statis isn't an indirect subsidy. It's just all those other organizations that don't have it get their money stolen from them by the federal maphia.

Is it fair? NO. Life's not fair. But in the words of Murry Rothboard. Make the loop-holes big enough to drive a mack-truck through, and take advantage of them whenever you can. The less money you can send to the federal maphia the better.

Tracy