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Alert - Bank of America wants fingerprints to cash checks - action Friday Manch.

Started by jaqeboy, February 19, 2009, 09:38 PM NHFT

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jaqeboy

Please! - I need a couple of warm-body witnesses tomorrow afternoon in Manchester.

Bank of America wants a fingerprint or a thumbprint to cash a check!

I tried to cash a relatively small check from a client today and the teller (Laura DiSabato) refused to honor the check unless I gave a finger or thumbprint on the check. The issue was raised to her supervisor (Elizabeth Germond) who stood firm. I want to cash the check and I believe it's wrong for them not to honor checks drawn on their bank. I did show a drivers license to prove my ID. I have other legal/political details to follow in a separate post.

I want to go back in tomorrow afternoon with witnesses, preferably one or 2 with videocams. I want to record them refusing to cash the check. I have already advised them that I believe it would be a violation of law and that they would be subject to some pretty hefty penalties if they did not honor checks drawn on their bank.

Try this plan on for size:
Meet at Panera Bread, South Willow Street at 2:30PM to review strategy and process;
Proceed to the bank (across the street) to cash the check at 3:00PM;
You guys witness and or videotape the event (they will probably not allow videotaping inside, so be prepared to be shut down);
All sign affidavits as to what you observed for use in legal proceedings, should any be necessary;
It would be great if a BoA account holder would be willing to close their account with them over the policy.

I think this would make a good YouTube/Ridley Report to put out there. Can anyone join me in this? I'd do it in the AM, but I have an important appointment out of town in the AM.

K. Darien Freeheart

This was discussed before at some point on this forum. It's not exactly "new" it's just something that upsets people now and then. Lemme see if I can find the older thread...


jaqeboy

References post for those concerned with this issue (updated with codes, statutes, contact info, etc. as action proceeds)

* teller at the 1000 South Willow Street, Manchester branch of Bank of America who first refused to cash check 19Feb09: Laura DeSabato

* Laura's supervisor, who confirmed their refusal on 19Feb09: Elizabeth Germond, Teller Operations Specialist, South Willow Banking Center, Cust. Svc: 800-841-4000, tel: 603-628-6874.

* met with Banking Center Manager: Nathaniel Chapman with Civil Rights Observer present on 21Feb09 (report of meeting in a separate post).

* N. Chapman's boss: Dawn Champiny, Consumer Market Executive for New Hampshire, tel: 222-3023.

* PR rep for Bank of America: Anne Pace, Senior V.P. of Communications, tel: 646-855-5996, email: anne.pace@bankofamerica.com.

* spoke with Joel Winters, who is on the House Commerce Committee and he says the committee is all over the issue of BoA and this fingerprinting deal. Some details:

* Gerald (Jerry) Little, president of the New Hampshire Bankers Association (trade group), tel: 224-5373, says BoA has to honor the check (per Winters conversation with Little), though not until the following day after presentment.
20Feb09 Telephone call with Little summary: denies saying to Joel that they must cash the check; thumbprint signature proposed in an Interagency working group on bank fraud document, published on OCC site called "Check Fraud; A Guide to Avoiding Losses", booklet recommends applying requirement to all members of a class (non-customer check cashers), instead of selected group based on suspicion, in order to avoid discrimination lawsuits; Suggests reading RSA 382, Art.3, Part 4, "Imposters and Fictitious Payees" re responsibility of bank to protect their customer. He is not a lawyer, nor is he a spokesman for BofA.

* The UCC (Uniform Commercial Code), RSA section 382 (search on: "382-A:3-501 Presentment") requires the bank to honor checks drawn on them with "reasonable identification";. However, the law does allow them to delay one day if presentment is made after their "end of business day" time, which may not be before 2:00 PM.

* Rep. Frank Sapareto of Derry, tel: 894-7083, Email: sapareto@comcast.net is sponsoring a bill (HB299, AN ACT prohibiting banks from requiring blood samples, fingerprints, and DNA samples in order to complete a banking transaction.)
Frank says that the hearing on the bill has already been held in the committee, but he recommends that I call each member of the committee, especially the Democrats to tell them my story. The committee members are online here.

The bill reads, in part:

Quote
==========text of bill==============
1 New Subparagraph; Negotiable Instruments; Presentment; Unreasonable Forms of Identification. Amend RSA 382-A:3-501 by inserting after subparagraph (b) the following new subparagraph:

"(c) Reasonable identification shall not include blood samples, finger prints, or DNA samples."
==========original text=============
Section 382-A:3-501 (2) Upon demand of the person to whom presentment is made, the person making presentment must (i) exhibit the instrument, (ii) give reasonable identification and, if presentment is made on behalf of another person, reasonable evidence of authority to do so, and (iii) sign a receipt on the instrument for any payment made or surrender the instrument if full payment is made.

So, legally, under the UCC, this all hinges on the "reasonableness" of their identification requirement, which Sapareto/Kurk's bill is trying to statutorily limit, by prohibiting the biometric identifiers.

* This bill is in the Commerce Committee, Tara Reardon, chairman, office tel: 271-3369.

* Btw, Rep. Neal Kurk of Weare (co-sponsor of above) also heroically fights any privacy invasions, tel: 529-7253, email: neal.kurk@leg.state.nh.us. Kurk advises: document everything; call Human Rights Commission lawyers first to get process steps right if I wished to pursue litigation; call Union Leader/Sunday News human interest reporter on insurance and banking issues, Nancy West; call WMUR Ch.9 human interest reporter: [see below]; YouTube would be great!

* In addition, I raised religious objections to providing a fingerprint and advised the teller and her supervisor that there were pretty severe fines for discriminating against someone based on their religious beliefs (federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 and federal Privacy Act of 1974).

* In addition, I phoned the governor's office (tel: 271-2121) and spoke with his secretary, Brittany, who referred me to:

* Lindsay E. Whitelaw, Governor's Special Assistant for Citizens Services (tel: 271-2121), LINDSAY.WHITELAW@NH.GOV, who handles banking issues. Whitelaw advised me to put the complaint in writing to her or to the governor's inbox, which they check every morning, governorlynch@nh.gov. They will forward the concern on to the governor or to his policy people. The governor hasn't formed an opinion on the bill (HB299) and they will study it;
* Whitelaw recommends contacting the federal delegation with the complaint, since the bank is federally chartered as a national bank:
Senator Gregg's Concord office: 225-7115
Senator Shaheen's Manchester office: 647-7500
Rep: (will have to find out which rep covers my town)

* Banking Department, tel: 271-3561 (for complaint about banking practices). The Banking Department advises me that they do not regulate Bank of America because it is nationally chartered. Complaints should be taken up with the Comptroller of the Currency, tel: 800-613-6743;

* Comptroller of the Currency, tel: 800-613-6743 (not contacting them yet, exhausting private and state remedies first)

* New Hampshire commission for human rights (statute), website, tel: 271-2767 (for religious discrimination complaint) - (left vmail). The staffer at the commission advised me that their investigators return calls on Tuesday and Thursday, so I left a message for them to return my call. Their email: humanrights@nhsa.state.nh.us.

* Union Leader/Sunday News, tel: 668-4321 ext. 0, city editor: John Toole (sp?), banking/insurance human interest reporter: Nancy West, email: nwest@unionleader.com, paper mail: New Hampshire Union Leader, Attn: Newsroom, P.O. Box 9555, Manchester, NH 03108-9555

* WMUR Channel 9, WMUR-TV Broadcast Center, 100 South Commercial Street, Manchester, NH 03101, (603) 669-9999, FAX: (603) 641-9005, the news editor advises me to keep them updated by emailing to storyideas@wmur.com, use the subject line "Bank of America fingerprinting".

I'll continue updating the details above as I get the corrected info.

I think it's important to draw the line in the sand on this one! I think we can come down hard on them over this and back them down, hopefully for good. We all may be having to give fingerprints for everything soon if we don't nip this in the bud.

Fluff and Stuff

This has happened at banks across the nation for years.  If you don't like it, maybe you should get an account with a bank.  That way you will not have to deal with this. 

Of course, you can always cause a scene, it's your choice.

jaqeboy

Quote from: Radical and Stuff on February 19, 2009, 10:30 PM NHFT
This has happened at banks across the nation for years.  If you don't like it, maybe you should get an account with a bank.  That way you will not have to deal with this. 

Of course, you can always cause a scene, it's your choice.

Keith, you are invited to come along, and if you have a digital camcorder, that would really help! It's not often we have a chance to strike a blow while things are all in alignment - the House is on our side with clarifying legislation, the Bankers Association president says we are right, the existing statutes (UCC) are with us. The bank is volunteering to be the ID goon squad for the state, over the objections of the people. Let's stop it tomorrow! AND, I'll buy you a cup of coffee at Panera's!

thinkliberty

I have always told bank of america, (bank boston, before fleet took it over use to do this too) about the UCC and that I would sue them for treble damages if they did not cash the check, they have always got the manager and he let me cash the check.

Sometimes they said I could open an account with the bank if I did not want to give my thumb print, but I countered that I would not join a bank that hassled people for a thumb print if I wrote them a check and they wanted to cash it... I might get sued.

They always cashed the check after that.

D Stewart

Given that you are well aware of their policy, and don't wish to abide by it, why did you accept the paper from your client?  It's not like other means of payment aren't available, especially when the amount is relatively small.

PaulOtt

I really really don't like the idea of them trying to get your prints, but they are a [mostly] private business and if that's how they want to run their business, I say that's their right.

dalebert

I'm going to be closing my account with Merrill Lynch very soon. They were bought by BofA. This is appalling. I knew about it but I think I'm finally just completely fed up with it now that they're really sticking to their guns about this.

jaqeboy

Quote from: thinkliberty on February 19, 2009, 11:13 PM NHFT
I have always told bank of america, (bank boston, before fleet took it over use to do this too) about the UCC and that I would sue them for treble damages if they did not cash the check, they have always got the manager and he let me cash the check.

Sometimes they said I could open an account with the bank if I did not want to give my thumb print, but I countered that I would not join a bank that hassled people for a thumb print if I wrote them a check and they wanted to cash it... I might get sued.

They always cashed the check after that.

I think you've got it, thinkliberty. I've just finished reviewing that UCC section (I updated my references post below) and it all hinges over the "reasonable" ID thing, which Sapareto and Kurk in the Commerce committee are attempting to tighten up to prohibit the biometric requirements. I think I'll use your approach tomorrow, with at least 1 personal witness, and video, if possible. I'll keep you and the list posted. Are you local to Manchester? By the way, if I go as late in the day as I proposed, they could hold me off til the next day.

jaqeboy

Quote from: Donald McFarlane on February 19, 2009, 11:24 PM NHFT
Given that you are well aware of their policy, and don't wish to abide by it, why did you accept the paper from your client?  It's not like other means of payment aren't available, especially when the amount is relatively small.

I was not aware of their policy (though I knew that they are pricks, in general). They operate under public law, of which the UCC is a part. They are attempting to foist an unreasonable ID requirement on the people, which is not allowable under this rule of law. This is a case where the people, you and I, are called on to enforce that rule on them. It's not a comfortable thing, but it's our job, eh?

jaqeboy

Quote from: PaulOtt on February 19, 2009, 11:37 PM NHFT
I really really don't like the idea of them trying to get your prints, but they are a [mostly] private business and if that's how they want to run their business, I say that's their right.

This is almost too outrageous to start a discussion on, but, just basically, we do not live in an idealistic free market, and BoA is not an idealistically private business in an idealistic free market. They are part of a criminal conspiratorial monopoly controlling the money and banking system (Federal Reserve System). They are charted under state and federal charters and they are regulated by a state banking commission. They are agents for the United States Depatment of Treasury and operate under their regulations. The power of the banksters is not to be underestimated and BoA's current usefulness as a biometric sweep agent should be revolting to any freedom lover. Don't get me started...

This thread, however, is intended to be about tomorrow's action to stop BoA's biometric sweep program once and for all in New-Hampshire - you're welcome to join in. It's a battle we can win, because they are so far off of "reasonableness."

jaqeboy

Quote from: dalebert on February 19, 2009, 11:43 PM NHFT
I'm going to be closing my account with Merrill Lynch very soon. They were bought by BofA. This is appalling. I knew about it but I think I'm finally just completely fed up with it now that they're really sticking to their guns about this.

Wish you were going to be in Manch tomorrow afternoon - need witnesses.

thinkliberty

Another fun thing to try might be to try to get the teller sign a contract stating if Bank of america  sells, loses, publishes, misprints and/or has your thumb print stolen by anyone including hackers, rogue employee(s) and/or anyone including the US or foreign government(s) with out your permission,  even though it may be no fault of Bank of America that they will pay you 10 million dollars. (obviously it would have to be written better than this)

That way you are not refusing to give them your thumb print, it's just that you don't trust them to keep it safe.... it might help in a court case against them. With you being able to say that you did not refuse to give them your thumb print, but they would not promise to keep your thumb print safe.