Free State Rally for HCR 6 on Yahoo! news

[Friday]

Can you do me a favor?  Just give me one moment of frank evaluation before you go on, one moment of honesty between you and your feelings.  Then you can go on with your life. 

Were you creeped-out by the chanting?  Did the hair rise on the back of your neck when people got pushy when the vote failed?  Did you get the urge to scrub your hands vigorously after shaking hands with politicians?  Did you find the revengeful and violent rally emotions just a little disturbing?   Don't push down those feelings just yet.  Bring them into the light for a second. 

Now, you know what you felt.  Maybe there was a reason for it.  Perhaps, just perhaps, those feelings are telling you the truth.  It is rude to push people out of your way.  It is inciting conformity to chant in unison.  It is hypocritical to say you'll do one thing then act against it. 

Are these slimy politicians the people you want to trust your future to?  Are those mindless partisans the ones you want to work with?   Do you want those rude bullies to babysit your children? 

No?
Then continue to live your life in the peaceful, honest way you usually do, and forget about having to compromise with evil.  You don't have to compromise, You don't have to ruin your life and future and children.  Just live as an admirable person would.  I'm sure you already do in 99.9% of your life. 

Oh Lauren, would you stop with the incessant awesomeness; it's becoming quite tedious. 

[Sam A. Robrin]

Doesn't it mean that you give up when you say "Uncle"?

The speaker's point was to indicate that the chanters had given up on expecting solutions from the government.  But "Uncle" means United Network Command for Law Enforcement not that you give up in that sense, but that you concede.

I didn't really see anyone shoving anyone.

Neither did I, and I suspect that such insinuations are an attempt to discredit certain people while dodging direct address of the issue.

[Pat K]

Can you do me a favor?  Just give me one moment of frank evaluation before you go on, one moment of honesty between you and your feelings.  Then you can go on with your life. 

Were you creeped-out by the chanting?  Did the hair rise on the back of your neck when people got pushy when the vote failed?  Did you get the urge to scrub your hands vigorously after shaking hands with politicians?  Did you find the revengeful and violent rally emotions just a little disturbing?   Don't push down those feelings just yet.  Bring them into the light for a second. 

Now, you know what you felt.  Maybe there was a reason for it.  Perhaps, just perhaps, those feelings are telling you the truth.  It is rude to push people out of your way.  It is inciting conformity to chant in unison.  It is hypocritical to say you'll do one thing then act against it. 

Are these slimy politicians the people you want to trust your future to?  Are those mindless partisans the ones you want to work with?   Do you want those rude bullies to babysit your children? 

No?
Then continue to live your life in the peaceful, honest way you usually do, and forget about having to compromise with evil.  You don't have to compromise, You don't have to ruin your life and future and children.  Just live as an admirable person would.  I'm sure you already do in 99.9% of your life. 

Gulp- WOW

[PaulOtt]

so you guys all had the same reaction?

Yes, but we didn't chant it!

I did. I wasn't paying attention to what his speech was about though. What was with the "J" shape with the fingers?

Regardless of what was being chanted (and whether people were chanting or not), I think I could have done more to try to promote liberty in general, such as by handing out Free Talk Live flyers / bumper stickers to the attendees and spending more time on the sidewalk where passesrby could have seen the signs.   I'll have to remember that next time.

[SethCohn]

Were you creeped-out by the chanting? 

Some of it, but the nature of a rally is that there are rallying cries.  We don't all agree, and the anti-war speakers didn't get the crowd chanting, because a chunk of that crowd was certainly NOT anti-war.  Sad but true.  We need to get along with folks who don't agree with 'us' (as if there is an 'us') in order to make progress on some fronts.

Did the hair rise on the back of your neck when people got pushy when the vote failed? 

I'd left (had to work), so I didn't see this, but I will tell you that the politicos I know (the NHLAers for example) are trying to deal with the fallout from the bad behavior, and those who did so hurt the proliberty cause in the long run.  Does that mean that 'we' shouldn't ask them to show up again?  No, it means we need to a better job of education next time.  Education BEFORE the event, not just at it.

Did you get the urge to scrub your hands vigorously after shaking hands with politicians?

Hehehe, sorry, I've caught those germs already (grin)

 Did you find the revengeful and violent rally emotions just a little disturbing?

Yes and no... Anger is healthy: Anger means you are unhappy and want something to change.
That doesn't mean violent _expression_ is a good thing... but voicing frustration and anger is good.

The problem is the nature of crowds and the mass mentality that happens.  Heck, it'll happen at baseball games, at Obama Rallies, and pretty much every place else.  This is also why pro-liberty people tend to NOT be crowd sorts, often the anti-sheep in the flock... saying "Hey, wait a sec..."  But it'll happen at all group events.  Liberty Forum included... there is a group think that happens... maybe it's the electromagnetic waves in a small space... group telepathy in a sick fashion.

Don't push down those feelings just yet.  Bring them into the light for a second. 

Now, you know what you felt.  Maybe there was a reason for it.  Perhaps, just perhaps, those feelings are telling you the truth.  It is rude to push people out of your way.  It is inciting conformity to chant in unison. 

No argument there.

It is hypocritical to say you'll do one thing then act against it. 

Are these slimy politicians the people you want to trust your future to?  Are those mindless partisans the ones you want to work with?   Do you want those rude bullies to babysit your children? 

Um, wait a sec... who was a hypocrite?  Who suggested bullies should babysit?  I completely agree with the first part, but you took a subtle left turn into an unrelated area, as if it's the only answer...

No?
Then continue to live your life in the peaceful, honest way you usually do, and forget about having to compromise with evil.  You don't have to compromise, You don't have to ruin your life and future and children.  Just live as an admirable person would.  I'm sure you already do in 99.9% of your life. 

And it's possible to do all of that, and still participate in politics, still recognize that some fights can't be won at this point, and it's better to take a small victory alongside a larger defeat, especially if in the long run, you are still able to fight, and perhaps fight better next time.

It's very idealistic to insist on never compromising, and it's a great dream, but it's a poor way to handle real life.  Avoid compromises, yes, for sure.  Some of us live our life in the best ways we can, and don't compromise on some things, but do on others, in order to not compromise on the most important of our principles/beliefs/loves/family/etc.

[thinkliberty]

No?
Then continue to live your life in the peaceful, honest way you usually do, and forget about having to compromise with evil.  You don't have to compromise, You don't have to ruin your life and future and children.  Just live as an admirable person would.  I'm sure you already do in 99.9% of your life. 

Does that mean go to work, pay your taxes, don't speak out against your government? Because if it doesn't then you won't have a peaceful life.

You must compromise with evil or that evil will come in your house with guns and take you from your family.

[Russell Kanning]

you can live peaceably with others ... they won't necessarily return the favor

I thought we all knew that the bill wasn't going to pass ... maybe people would have been in a different frame of mind if they knew they were not going to sway the democrat reps ... to me it was for showing your support of separating from the feds

[Free libertarian]

 I chanted this outside....4 legs good two legs bad !   baaaa baaa
I never made it inside but maybe it had changed to 4 legs good two legs better by then? 
     

[TackleTheWorld]

LOL
By the way, if you get injured while building the windmill DONT get in the truck!  The vet doesn't have a truck, the glue factory does!

[Sam A. Robrin]

... to me it was for showing your support of separating from the feds

To me as well, and I think the message is penetrating slowly.
I continue to observe that a little more planning at these events would be helpful--like alternate reactions to the two outcomes in this case.  No one wanted to participate in my impromptu suggestion to run to Home Depot, get pitchforks and torches ("tiki torches" will make the point just fine), and stand peaceably in front of the building holding them. American Gothic 2009, as it were . . .

[BillKauffman]

It was also disturbing that some people were yelling/chanting stuff like "we will fight".

Although I firmly support what I feel is the intent of HCR6, I detested most of the rhetoric that surrounded HCR6 that day.

Some of the shouts I heard:

• "No king obama!"  -- Yea, right, as if the type of person to shout out that would ever be caught dead shouting "no king bush"
• Remember in november! -- You think the republicans are going to give a crap about you once they get elected and become drunk with power again?
• "Uncle, Uncle!" -- What are you doing? Begging?
  
• "We will fight!" -- this is the same kind of mindless, violent, sheeple-creating crap that got us in the situation we're in!

I can't stand the chanting. It's mindless brainwashing group-think, plain and simple. I won't participate. And unfortunately it makes me far less likely to want to go back to one of these events. I'm an individual, I think for myself, and I most certainly will not beg for my rights,

The majority of the people I saw talking there (the crowd, not the speakers) wanted to have a "revolution" and that they were going to recreate the federal government, and then they all stuck their hands in the air with the shape of a gun. In all seriousness, we do not need a revolution, that would be repeating the same mistake over again. We need to evolve, we need to be talking about free markets, we need to be talking about voluntary interactions, and most importantly of all we need to be talking about peaceful ways to do it.

Look, most people outside the "liberty movement" see this state's rights issue as a "right-wing, trojan horse" to continue polarizing the country...

The timing of it shortly after the Presidential inauguration adds fuel to the fire.

You are going to have to find away to reach out to the left if you want this type of legislation to have broad support and to succeed. The way is via understanding how left-libertarianism is different than right-libertarianism.

[David]

It was also disturbing that some people were yelling/chanting stuff like "we will fight".

Although I firmly support what I feel is the intent of HCR6, I detested most of the rhetoric that surrounded HCR6 that day.

Some of the shouts I heard:

• "No king obama!"  -- Yea, right, as if the type of person to shout out that would ever be caught dead shouting "no king bush"
• Remember in november! -- You think the republicans are going to give a crap about you once they get elected and become drunk with power again?
• "Uncle, Uncle!" -- What are you doing? Begging?
  
• "We will fight!" -- this is the same kind of mindless, violent, sheeple-creating crap that got us in the situation we're in!

I can't stand the chanting. It's mindless brainwashing group-think, plain and simple. I won't participate. And unfortunately it makes me far less likely to want to go back to one of these events. I'm an individual, I think for myself, and I most certainly will not beg for my rights,

The majority of the people I saw talking there (the crowd, not the speakers) wanted to have a "revolution" and that they were going to recreate the federal government, and then they all stuck their hands in the air with the shape of a gun. In all seriousness, we do not need a revolution, that would be repeating the same mistake over again. We need to evolve, we need to be talking about free markets, we need to be talking about voluntary interactions, and most importantly of all we need to be talking about peaceful ways to do it.

Look, most people outside the "liberty movement" see this state's rights issue as a "right-wing, trojan horse" to continue polarizing the country...

The timing of it shortly after the Presidential inauguration adds fuel to the fire.

You are going to have to find away to reach out to the left if you want this type of legislation to have broad support and to succeed. The way is via understanding how left-libertarianism is different than right-libertarianism.

Agree.  You cannot chant no king obama, and not be seen as a right wing group.  Bush did the first bail out.  hcr 6 may have gone through the dem controlled house when bush was pres, but now the wagons are circled around obama. 

If Seth is right that many, maybe most in that crowd do not oppose general war, particularly offensive wars, than I am sad to have gone to that rally.  I do not wish to be around people who want their precious liberty, but are numb or indifferent to the life, liberty and property of the victims of war known casually as collateral damage. 

Pro war people, please do not come to keene. 

[BillKauffman]

It was also disturbing that some people were yelling/chanting stuff like "we will fight".

Although I firmly support what I feel is the intent of HCR6, I detested most of the rhetoric that surrounded HCR6 that day.

Some of the shouts I heard:

• "No king obama!"  -- Yea, right, as if the type of person to shout out that would ever be caught dead shouting "no king bush"
• Remember in november! -- You think the republicans are going to give a crap about you once they get elected and become drunk with power again?
• "Uncle, Uncle!" -- What are you doing? Begging?
  
• "We will fight!" -- this is the same kind of mindless, violent, sheeple-creating crap that got us in the situation we're in!

I can't stand the chanting. It's mindless brainwashing group-think, plain and simple. I won't participate. And unfortunately it makes me far less likely to want to go back to one of these events. I'm an individual, I think for myself, and I most certainly will not beg for my rights,

The majority of the people I saw talking there (the crowd, not the speakers) wanted to have a "revolution" and that they were going to recreate the federal government, and then they all stuck their hands in the air with the shape of a gun. In all seriousness, we do not need a revolution, that would be repeating the same mistake over again. We need to evolve, we need to be talking about free markets, we need to be talking about voluntary interactions, and most importantly of all we need to be talking about peaceful ways to do it.

Look, most people outside the "liberty movement" see this state's rights issue as a "right-wing, trojan horse" to continue polarizing the country...

The timing of it shortly after the Presidential inauguration adds fuel to the fire.

You are going to have to find away to reach out to the left if you want this type of legislation to have broad support and to succeed. The way is via understanding how left-libertarianism is different than right-libertarianism.

Agree.  You cannot chant no king obama, and not be seen as a right wing group.  Bush did the first bail out.  hcr 6 may have gone through the dem controlled house when bush was pres, but now the wagons are circled around obama. 

If Seth is right that many, maybe most in that crowd do not oppose general war, particularly offensive wars, than I am sad to have gone to that rally.  I do not wish to be around people who want their precious liberty, but are numb or indifferent to the life, liberty and property of the victims of war known casually as collateral damage. 

Pro war people, please do not come to keene. 

Yes, and to make the point even further what is the difference between the arguments against "Real ID" and for "State's rights"?

Absolutely nothing...

Yet the Democratic Governor as a centrist and moderate bellwether for the DP in NH is against the "Real ID" but apparently not for "State's rights" - why?

How much damage has been done to the Real ID's broader left-right coalition outside of the NH liberty movement by only the right's support outside the NH liberty movement of HCR 6?

[John Edward Mercier]

Because the nullification of the only treaty NH has for travel, trade, and defense... especial in the manner of which it was formed... is questionable.

[dalebert]

No one wanted to participate in my impromptu suggestion to run to Home Depot, get pitchforks and torches ("tiki torches" will make the point just fine), and stand peaceably in front of the building holding them. American Gothic 2009, as it were . . .

I had no motivation whatsoever for that. It would have felt very dishonest. I didn't really care one way or the other whether it passed. To stage a massive protest for this silly little proclamation would have felt empty.