Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[KBCraig]

Well, now. That's just a little bit different from what someone was gloating on Facebook, about Heidi "pleading guilty to animal abuse", isn't it?

You mean when Beth posted a photo of the letter from the state informing her that Heidi pled guilty?

It was more about the gloating than the plea.

The obvious question to ask, for anyone interested in objective answers, would be, "Pleaded guilty to what, exactly?"

Almost everyone knows that plea deals are never made without a reduction in charges. In this case, it was a rather massive reduction in charges: two counts of failing to provide adequate shelter, versus much more serious charges of neglect and starvation (IIRC).

Beth didn't mention the reduced charges. She cheered that Heidi had "pleaded guilty", with the obvious implication that Heidi was guilty of everything she'd been accused of, both in court, and in the horse forums.

For the record (I shouldn't have to repeat it, but this thread has been ongoing for some time now): I can rightly be described as an animal lover. I deplore and condemn abuse, neglect, starvation, and cruelty. I also believe there are some people who love animals more than fellow human beings, hold them in higher regard, and are all too eager to see people punished by the State for treating animals like animals, instead of superior beings.

[Russell Kanning]

that is good news

just in time for the first snow flakes of this winter .... will the thugs be counting how many touch the backs of the horses?

[stanford]

For the record (I shouldn't have to repeat it, but this thread has been ongoing for some time now): I can rightly be described as an animal lover. I deplore and condemn abuse, neglect, starvation, and cruelty. I also believe there are some people who love animals more than fellow human beings, hold them in higher regard, and are all too eager to see people punished by the State for treating animals like animals, instead of superior beings.

Also for the record, I love animals and would not want to ever see them abused or neglected. But when it comes down to it, we need to remember that humans are humans and animals are property.

We have some neighbors who have very large horses that they use in pulling competitions. These horses pull everything from wagons to rocks. Beasts of burden have helped create civilization for centuries. They are well taken care of because they represent valuable assets to their owners.

There are people who would call that cruelty. These mis-guided do-gooders are trying to ban these competitions.

From Beth's Facebook page: "Ill use force of the government against anyone who harms a human or horse."

I wish I would have known this before I hired her. I never would want such a dangerous, violent person around me or my family.

[stanford]

that is good news

just in time for the first snow flakes of this winter .... will the thugs be counting how many touch the backs of the horses?

I don't know how many times I looked out in the paddocks during rain, wind, or snow and saw the horses standing in the weather right next to perfectly good shelters.

What if you build shelters and the horses don't use them? Can you legislate that the horses use them? Do you impose fines on the animals for standing in the wind? What if they don't pay the fine? Few horses can afford to pay, after all, and those that can are stingy with their money. Do you throw a horse in jail so it can work off $50/day? At least they'd be under shelter.

Maybe I shouldn't be giving the legislators any more ideas.

[porcupine kate]

Well, now. That's just a little bit different from what someone was gloating on Facebook, about Heidi "pleading guilty to animal abuse", isn't it?

You mean when Beth posted a photo of the letter from the state informing her that Heidi pled guilty?

It was more about the gloating than the plea.

The obvious question to ask, for anyone interested in objective answers, would be, "Pleaded guilty to what, exactly?"

Almost everyone knows that plea deals are never made without a reduction in charges. In this case, it was a rather massive reduction in charges: two counts of failing to provide adequate shelter, versus much more serious charges of neglect and starvation (IIRC).

Beth didn't mention the reduced charges. She cheered that Heidi had "pleaded guilty", with the obvious implication that Heidi was guilty of everything she'd been accused of, both in court, and in the horse forums.

For the record (I shouldn't have to repeat it, but this thread has been ongoing for some time now): I can rightly be described as an animal lover. I deplore and condemn abuse, neglect, starvation, and cruelty. I also believe there are some people who love animals more than fellow human beings, hold them in higher regard, and are all too eager to see people punished by the State for treating animals like animals, instead of superior beings.

I asked Beth about the letter.  They wouldn't tell her anything other then Hedi plead guilty to the charges and Beth was released from her subpoena.  She called and asked and could get no further explanation on which charges.  They did not tell her most of them were dropped. 

[AntonLee]

I'm glad the free staters I know aren't willing to call the federales and staties on me for things that don't concern them.  If you are willing to do so, call the po-9 in to bust some heads and steal some property, then I wouldn't consider you a freestater no matter what state you came from.

I wouldn't even consider you human, you'd be an animal to harm a human being because you don't care for how they treat their property.  "I'm sorry, you're just a tool"

Sorry that this entire thing happened to your family. 

[stanford]

I asked Beth about the letter.  They wouldn't tell her anything other then Hedi plead guilty to the charges and Beth was released from her subpoena.  She called and asked and could get no further explanation on which charges.  They did not tell her most of them were dropped.

You know, Kate, it wasn't the letter that set me off. It was the gloating. That letter was a joyous justification to Beth and her supporters that they were right in calling in the thugs. I knew what the truth was, but didn't want to interfere in their party until after the court hearing. And they sure did make themselves look like ignorant, violent fools.

But I'm ready to let it go. This has been very painful for my family and our finances. It's over except for the last two tickets that will be removed next year.

I can't yet forgive Beth for what she did. But I will forgive most of the people who supported her, since some things I've been told that she said were blatant lies and mis-characterizations. I can't blame people for believing such a likable person. I know I did at first.

And I'm with Anton. When I signed on to the Free State Project, I agreed with the Statement of Intent, which goes like this:

...I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.

Now it's perfectly fine for someone to move to New Hampshire for whatever reason they want. But if they don't live up to the Free State Project Statement of Intent, they really shouldn't be calling themselves a "Free Stater".

So let's move beyond this. We have the Medical Marijuana veto override, there's the Manchester spending cap to get passed and the broad-based tax to fight. And then the other 10,000 statutes that need to be removed.

The horse saga is over. It's time for me to get back to work!

[stanford]

Oh, one more thing. I had some time to kill and stumbled upon one of these horse sites that has been all a-twitter about this case. Someone re-posted my message from yesterday about the case being closed. At the end of that message, I mentioned that I am celebrating by buying a round of beer at Murphy's Taproom.

Well, several people on this horsey board were doubting that my offer included them.

Let me tell you, I'd be honored to have you people there so I can buy you a beer. Plus, you'll get to see that all of the Freestaters are not as evil/twisted/ignorant as you have reported that I am.

I'm serious. MistyBlue, I know you are still reading these replies, so can you please get the message to these people? I thought about registering, but I'm sure you have a zero-tolerance rule about trolls.

In the spirit of forgiveness and understanding, I invite anyone who is familiar with this case to get to Taproom next Tuesday, 13-Oct and I'll buy you a beer. Say, 7-ish?

494 Elm St
Manchester, NH 03101-2511
(603) 644-3535

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&q=murphy%27s+taproom&fb=1&gl=us&hq=murphy%27s+taproom&hnear=Manchester,+NH&cid=0,0,12707519620611232294&ei=kKDOStehFYy-lAfvjJiOAw&ll=42.986018,-71.463082&spn=0.010171,0.014613&t=h&z=16

[stanford]

...and thanks for the Karma, people. Apparently I'm not the last person reading this waaay too-long epic thread from hell.

See you at Taproom next Tuesday!

[Pat K]

Your a better man then me Brian.

I love to give folks Beer, but those self right.......
well like I said you a better man than me.

[KBCraig]

Your a better man then me Brian.

I love to give folks Beer, but those self right.......
well like I said you a better man than me.

Sometimes it's tempting to just give someone the beer bottle. 

[KBCraig]

Friday's UL reports how the prosecutor practically apologized in court, and the NHSPCA is pissed.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=1ec1880a-a16b-414e-b6bd-440a2ce38b2d

[ny2nh]

Friday's UL reports how the prosecutor practically apologized in court, and the NHSPCA is pissed.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=1ec1880a-a16b-414e-b6bd-440a2ce38b2d

'
Where did you possibly read that in that article?

[sandm000]

Can you legislate that the horses use them [shelters]?

Thank you brian, for the delicious idea of how the legislation would be written, in the absurdist vein I could see police on a stakeout in mid-Decemeber, the sun goes down and they start writing tickets and sticking them on the horses or in the realist vein; ultimately it would be the owners responsibility that the horses be locked up, and being slightly larger than their owners, the only way to get them to go (if they didn't want to) would be a cattle prod.

[stanford]

It would require using force on the animals, for sure. But it's for their own good.

But it is just an extension of how the government treats its animals, the citizens. They must use force to make us obey them, but it's for our own good.