Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[George Donnelly]

Thanks for the update Brian. Re/ the ribs I know exactly what you mean. A vet taught me a few years back that if the ribs are slightly visible, the dog is at a good weight - IOW, exactly what you said.

Do you think the claim of 30 lbs of weight gain in 2 weeks is credible?

[Russell Kanning]

compared to the spca guy .... brian is seriously underweight ... we might have to look into this ... details at 11

[stanford]

Thanks for the update Brian. Re/ the ribs I know exactly what you mean. A vet taught me a few years back that if the ribs are slightly visible, the dog is at a good weight - IOW, exactly what you said.

Do you think the claim of 30 lbs of weight gain in 2 weeks is credible?

The only way to have them gain 30 pounds in two weeks would be to overfeed them. They would have to confine them to a stall and give them a lot of fatty grains and who knows what else. It's about the same thing that they do to fatten up cattle before slaughter.

Keeping baby animals confined and fattening them up quickly. In the cattle business, I think they call that "veal". I wonder what their plans are for Heidi's horses?

[George Donnelly]

The WMUR video did show the horses in stalls ....

[slim]

From the WMUR video 3 of the horses (Buddy, Angel, and Star) are at the Rockin Horse Ranch

Rockin' Horse Ranch
130 Harriman Hill Rd. Raymond, NH
603.895.5450 - 603.770.9211
603.770.3590 - 603-479-2433
info@rockinhorseranchnh.com
lkbkmk@comcast.net
http://www.rockinhorseranchnh.com

Also if you look at http://www.rockinhorseranchnh.com/horses/horses.html Horse named Nikki if you look at the photo of the horse walking you can see the hoses ribs

[Redchrome]

Ribs. I'm sure we've all been to friends' houses (and perhaps your own) where the dogs and cats are fat fat fat. We all love our animals and pamper them. Well, the same thing happens to the bigger pets, horses. Most people who keep a single or couple horses way overfeed them, which is as unhealthy as overfeeding your dog or yourself. The problem is, this plumpness starts to look normal, and even the vets start to think it's normal. Ribs should not be prominent, but seeing the outlines of ribs on a horse, especially after a hard winter or in the case of worms, requires special action, but is not a cause for alarm.

If I were to take off my shirt, you could see my ribs. I'm 34 years old, literally sit with my feet up for 12 hours or more a day, and eat meat & other greasy foods until I feel full. Am I malnourished? According to the horse thieves I must be.

Frozen horse poop. Need I say more? The horses had plenty of room to walk around the paddocks, but tend to stay where the food is.

I grew up on a farm. Animals do not have the distaste for feces that we have programmed into us when we are children. They're quite happy to wallow in manure. Sometimes this is detrimental to them; but it's a constant struggle to keep them out of it. Cats & dogs are much more trainable than most animals in this regard (because they've been bred to be companions for tens of thousands of years), and that's what most people think of when they think of 'animals'.

One of the serious troubles in our society today, is that most people do not know how the real world works, because they only see it on TV. Once you see a spider eat a butterfly, or you have to shoot your cat because the neighbor's dog chewed the cat's leg off and it's best to put the poor animal out of its misery, your worldview changes. 'Nature' is not pleasant, it is not kind, and it does not care about anyone's definition of 'fair'. We should keep that in mind when we evaluate the treatment of animals.

I am staunchly in favor of the ethical treatment of animals; but one should be careful about making judgements based on limited knowlege. (Just like politics and economics).

[AntonLee]

WMUR is amazing.  I'm thinking of heading over to the Rockin' Ranch. . .my girl said she's been by there before seeing as it's only two towns away.  Maybe I'll see if there are any ribs or feces anywhere. 

[Velma]

Most of the horses are Arabians. Heidi used to breed show horses, but is getting out of that game because of internal politics. Heidi's breeding program of the past few years have been for racing. The babies you saw in the WMUR video were part of the racing program. These are not quarter horses or thoroughbreds that you usually see at the racetrack. Arabian racing is a much smaller sport, but the horses routinely run a mile or more. We had a track in Colorado where some of Heidi's horses were part of the competitive program. The closest track that races Arabians here is in Delaware. Heidi was about to start getting some of the horses ready for the track when this raid happened.

Interesting - I had no idea that Arabians were used for racing. I've learned something new.    It's been a long time since the days when I had a horse and all I knew about Arabians was that they are beautiful animals.

The problem is, this plumpness starts to look normal, and even the vets start to think it's normal.

Sad but true. 

[slim]

I grew up on a farm. Animals do not have the distaste for feces that we have programmed into us when we are children. They're quite happy to wallow in manure. Sometimes this is detrimental to them; but it's a constant struggle to keep them out of it. Cats & dogs are much more trainable than most animals in this regard (because they've been bred to be companions for tens of thousands of years), and that's what most people think of when they think of 'animals'.

One of the serious troubles in our society today, is that most people do not know how the real world works, because they only see it on TV. Once you see a spider eat a butterfly, or you have to shoot your cat because the neighbor's dog chewed the cat's leg off and it's best to put the poor animal out of its misery, your worldview changes. 'Nature' is not pleasant, it is not kind, and it does not care about anyone's definition of 'fair'. We should keep that in mind when we evaluate the treatment of animals.

I am staunchly in favor of the ethical treatment of animals; but one should be careful about making judgements based on limited knowlege. (Just like politics and economics).

Even tho dogs and cats have been domesticated they can quickly return to the habits that they had originally. When I was growing up we had a dog called wolfy (appeared to be a husky mut) she showed up one day at the farm and was very skinny. After we got her to trust us and were able to get her back to good health she was the best small animal hunter we had. I clearly remember one summer she killed and brought home at least 1 woodchuck a day. She would tear the caucus apart eating the parts she wanted and leaving the rest all over the yard (some days it looked like a woodchuck Normandy). She would open the intestine and roll in the feces before she went out hunting to cover up her smell. That dog I can say saved my fathers farm and the neighbors farms thousands of dollars because the woodchuck holes would break axles on the machinery.

I would agree lots of people do not know how the real world works. Growing up on the farm I was introduced to the hard reality of death when I was young. We had some cats that would live in our barn, the cats were wild and killed the mice and rats that would try and take up residence in the barn. When I was about 7 my father found a litter of kittens that were born from one of the wild cats. The kittens had disease and would die a horrible painful death as one of my chores I was to dispose of the kittens before they succumbed to the disease. After having to kill a whole litter of kittens you realize a new perspective on life and death.

[Dave Ridley]

well i think it would be important not to single out for anger, those people who have been most forthcoming about holding the animals.  the concern should be more toward those animals that are in unknown locations, the folks (especially govt workers on your dime) who are being secretive. 

[KBCraig]

You do realize that animal rights activists are being targeted by the same government you abhor has "economic terrorists"?

That's an apt description of them. Just because they're enemies of the government, doesn't mean they're my allies. I don't support the government attacking them, either, but in this case they're using the power of the government to steal other people's property.

Sounds like "economic terrorism" to me.

[AntonLee]

well i think it would be important not to single out for anger, those people who have been most forthcoming about holding the animals.  the concern should be more toward those animals that are in unknown locations, the folks (especially govt workers on your dime) who are being secretive. 

I don't really see anyone coming out and saying "please come check on your horses here"

I wouldn't give them the time of day except to film and take pictures.

[Pat K]

Their the same kinda people who at another
time would have brought their trailers around
to round up the Jews.

[Me]

For the entire article - WITH PHOTOS (for those people who who have problems with words) - go to  http://www.habitatforhorses.org/rescues/bodyscoring.html

Then once you've educated yourself, go back and take a look at those three foals and body score them for yourself.

*****

Don Henneke, PhD, developed the Henneke Body Condition Scoring System during his graduate study at Texas A & M University .  It is based on both visual appraisal and palpable fat cover of the six major points of the horse that are most responsive to changes in body fat.  The Henneke Chart is a standardized scoring system, whereas the terms, "skinny", "thin", "emaciated" or "fat" are all subjective terms that have different meanings to different people.

The Henneke Scoring System is a scientific method of evaluating a horse's body condition regardless of breed, body type, sex or age. It is now widely used by law enforcement agencies as an objective method of scoring a horse's body condition in horse cruelty cases. The Chart is accepted in a court of law.

Six parts of a horse are checked in this system—the neck, withers (where the neck ends and the back begins), shoulder, ribs, loin, and tailhead. When using the Henneke system, you should always make physical contact with these parts, and the kind of touch you use is important. Simply stroking the animal lightly won't provide an accurate idea of the horse's condition; you have to apply pressure to each part in turn.

The pressure you apply should be much like that of a massage; if you press a horse's side with your hand, you'll be able to feel the fat covering his ribs, and get an idea of how much fat is present. Likewise, when checking the withers, feel all around the area, as if you were squeezing firm clay. It is possible to be firm and gentle at the same time, and both traits are necessary to properly score a horse.

After pressing each part of the horse with your hands to feel for body fat. You then assign each area of the body the numerical score that corresponds with the horse's condition.  When a horse has a long haircoat it is imperative that you use your hands to feel the horse. The horse's long haircoat will hide the protrusion of bones, all except in the most extreme cases.  The scores from each area are then totaled and divided by 6. The resulting number is the horse's rating on the Henneke Body Scoring Condition Chart.

Conformational differences between horses may make certain criteria within each score difficult to apply to every animal. In these instances, those areas influenced by conformation should be discounted, but not ignored when determining the condition score.

Conformation also changes in pregnant mares as they approach parturition (birth). Since the weight of the conceptus tends to pull the skin and musculature tighter over the back and ribs, emphasis is placed upon fat deposition behind the shoulder, around the tailhead and along the neck and withers in these cases.

The Chart rates the horses on a scale of 1 to 9.  A score of 1 is considered poor or emaciated with no body fat.  A 9 is extremely fat or obese.  Horse veterinarians consider a body score of between 4 and 7 as acceptable. A 5 is considered ideal.

Condition         Neck        Withers        Shoulder     Ribs     Loin        Tailhead



1 Poor      Bone structure easily noticeable    Bone structure easily noticeable    Bone structure easily noticeable    Ribs protruding prominently    Spinous processes projecting prominently    Tailhead, pinbones, and hook bones projecting prominently

2 Very Thin    Bone structure faintly discernible    Bone structure faintly discernible    Bone structure faintly discernible    Ribs prominent    Slight fat covering over base of spinous processes. Transverse processes of lumbar vertebrae feel rounded. Spinous processes are prominent    Tailhead prominent


3 Thin    Neck accentuated    Withers accentuated    Shoulder accentuated    Slight fat over ribs. Ribs easily discernible    Fat buildup halfway on spinous processes, but easily discernible. Traverse processes cannot be felt    Tailhead prominent but individual vertebrae cannot be visually identified. Hook bones appear rounded, but are still easily discernible. Pin bones not distinguishable


4 Moderately Thin    Neck not obviously thin    Withers not obviously thin    Shoulder not obviously thin    Faint outline of ribs discernible    Negative crease (peaked appearance) along back    Prominence depends on conformation. Fat can be felt. Hook bones not discernible


5 Moderate (Ideal Weight)    Neck blends smoothly into body    Withers rounded over spinous processes    Shoulder blends smoothly into body    Ribs cannot be visually distinguished, but can be easily felt    Back is level    Fat around tailhead beginning to feel soft


6 Moderately Fleshy    Fat beginning to be deposited    Fat beginning to be deposited    Fat beginning to be deposited    Fat over ribs feels spongy    May have a slight positive crease (a groove) down back    Fat around tailhead feels soft


7 Fleshy    Fat deposited along neck    Fat deposited along withers    Fat deposited behind shoulder    Individual ribs can be felt with pressure, but noticeable fat filling between ribs    May have a positive crease down the back    Fat around tailhead is soft


8 Fat    Noticeable thickening of neck    Area along withers filled with fat    Area behind shoulder filled in flush with body    Difficult to feel ribs    Positive crease down the back    Fat around tailhead very soft


9 Extremely Fat    Bulging fat    Bulging fat    Bulging fat    Patchy fat appearing over ribs    Obvious crease down the back    Bulging fat around tailhead

[Me]

This is a score of 1 (DEATHS DOOR)




This is a score of 2



This is a score of 3


This is a score of 4


This is a score of 5 (AVERAGE WEIGHT)


This is a score of 6


This is a score of 7


This is a score of 8


This is a score of 9 (OBESE)