Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[KBCraig]

After reading these sites I am even more convinced the vet score of a 1 is accurate..

How do you judge the accuracy of scoring based on what you read? How about you judge it based on, oh, I don't know, seeing the damn horses?

Oh, that's right, you haven't, and can't. Therefore you'll take horse forum speculation as if it's the gospel.

[AntonLee]

those of us who would take Brian's side without seeing the horses in question are wrong, but those who take the government's side on the same are also wrong.  The difference is that Brian did not steal horses from the government, but the government stole horses from them.

I read the same article, and I did not automatically take the opinion of the vet to conclude that it's okay for someone to steal another person's property.  I, somehow, don't think the word of one person can negate the non-aggression principle.  Should we start doing this, then it's a slippery slope.  If you care about animals, then you will be better served continuing the arduous task of applying the principles to things that you formerly would have been very statist on.

If they can take your horses, they can take your cats, your dogs, your cows, your pet iguana, your children, your home, your spouse, your life.

[Pat K]

those of us who would take Brian's side without seeing the horses in question are wrong, but those who take the government's side on the same are also wrong.  The difference is that Brian did not steal horses from the government, but the government stole horses from them.

I read the same article, and I did not automatically take the opinion of the vet to conclude that it's okay for someone to steal another person's property.  I, somehow, don't think the word of one person can negate the non-aggression principle.  Should we start doing this, then it's a slippery slope.  If you care about animals, then you will be better served continuing the arduous task of applying the principles to things that you formerly would have been very statist on.

If they can take your horses, they can take your cats, your dogs, your cows, your pet iguana, your children, your home, your spouse, your life.

[J’raxis 270145]

those of us who would take Brian's side without seeing the horses in question are wrong, but those who take the government's side on the same are also wrong.  The difference is that Brian did not steal horses from the government, but the government stole horses from them.

I read the same article, and I did not automatically take the opinion of the vet to conclude that it's okay for someone to steal another person's property.  I, somehow, don't think the word of one person can negate the non-aggression principle.  Should we start doing this, then it's a slippery slope.  If you care about animals, then you will be better served continuing the arduous task of applying the principles to things that you formerly would have been very statist on.

If they can take your horses, they can take your cats, your dogs, your cows, your pet iguana, your children, your home, your spouse, your life.

Indeed. The comments in this thread debating the health of the horses miss the point entirely: Even if the horses are unhealthy, this doesn't give the State, or anyone else, the (moral) authority to take the horses away from Brian and Heidi.

By debating this point, people are tacitly accepting what Steve Sprowl and his ilk do—the debate becomes whether or not he was factually right in this particular situation, not whether or not he was morally right to begin with.

[coffeeseven]

And back to the Libertarian chestnut.....who is the boss of you?

[George Donnelly]

I put together a 93days.com-style website for this at http://12horses.us

Let me know if you have any suggestions for it. Thanks.

[leetninja]

Once again - no one has any PROOF

Hey Joe Leblanc a few questions maybe you will answer here?

- Were you one of the people that took the horses from the farm that day?  More specifically did you take horses at the direction of Sprowl and his gang of thieves, load them into your trailer, and drive off with them?

- Were you one of the people who illegally covered your license plates on your vehicles?

- Did you take pictures or video of the horses when you came into possession of them?

- You mentioned worms.  so, A) Do you have the medical documentation to back that up?  B) Do you have any evidence at all of that accusation?

- Would you allow some neutral members of the forum to come and take a look at the horses and maybe take some pictures?

I'm sure i could come up with some more questions but I am really tired at the moment.

[J Leblanc]

For one , my name is Joe ,not John. As far as the gang of thieves comment I will chalk that up to be an asshole way to put it. Yes ,I was there that morning to legally remove the horses that I was directed to by the Candia police per the three vets direction..When I was approached with the camera I looked right at it .I was not ashamed nor do I believe anyone else was.If people were hanging there head it was from the snow and cold.I for one put animals above people, people have choices, animals have none. My plates were not covered and I also had my Rockin Horse Ranch jacket on.From what I understand, Brain Knew who I was. And yes , the two fillies were put on my trailer..Actually we had to lift them because they were to weak to get on by walking up the ramp.....Any pictures that I have would require the permission of candia pd for me to release....AS far as the worms, that easy, several people saw them in the piles of crap ,including one of your own..Like I said before ,a free stater takes care of these horse 4 to 5 days a week....As far as allowing your members to see these horses,if candia pd gives you permission,I would love to show these horses..But don't call me before candia does, you will not like what I say to you ..And I will make the appointment to fit my day, not yours.I want everyone to understand one thing,I offered to take these horses because I am set up for babies  I have two of my own that are a little older than these two,.I have the proper feed and exp. to get these horse back to good health I am here for tha animals and do what I can.The laws are what they are right now..I know the free staters are for less gov. which some things I agree , but when it comes to animal rights, I will always take their side.And I hope the laws get stricter and the penalties get harsher.These people that some of you are trying to protect need to realise that they screwed up.They also will have there day in court..My suggestion is to make a deal if they can and move on..They may get some of their points out  there,but I don't think they will win...............The entire truth will come out soon  Part three is next As far as these horses future,If the courts or the police tell me to give them back to Brain and his wife, I will do what I am told,But understand one thing , the NH horse community is pretty tight and like it or not you will be watched,trust is earned with us and hard to repair when damaged it. maybe you don't care but we come in handy when you need us

[Peacemaker]

Joe, You seem like a nice enough Guy, just trying to do what's right and I thank you for any and all the care you've given the Horses.  I'm a big time Animal Lover and I can't stand the thought of any Animal Abuse by Anyone.

You mentioned that Steve Sprowl came on your land, made some "suggestions" (backed by the point of the gun) and you obliged.  No Big Deal to you.  But for those who truly understand Aggression at it's Root, it's absolutely unacceptable to have anyone, Uninvited, tell us what we can and can't do with our Lives/Property (if you don't own 100% of life, then who does?  The Government?)

The Super Majority of Americans are "educated" (indoctrinated/brainwashed) by the State (The Government).  It's Appalling.  And  I think in the rare cases where there is animal abuse (and I'm not saying there is one way or the other), that Everyone would be much better off if the Government had nothing to do with it. 

And if we had a truly Free Society, I think there would be a lot more resources available for those who did need some type of help, aid, in any area, because everyone would have a lot more money (what would we do without the Dishonest Ones who inflate our money supply, rob us and give it all away)?  I'll tell you, we'd all have Happier Richer Freeer Lives.  It would be a whole new world.

Remember Joe, The Government (the Thugs with the Guns) do an Excellent job in only a few areas: destroying wealth, destroying minds, creating Irresponsibility and destroying lives, to benefit themselves.  You are free Obey the Thugs, but I want nothing to do with them.

[AntonLee]

the NH horse community is pretty tight and like it or not you will be watched,trust is earned with us and hard to repair when damaged it. maybe you don't care but we come in handy when you need us

ah yes, if you defy the rules of the NH horse community, you will be punished. . . you will be jailed. . . you will be stolen from. . . .and you will die. . . all hail the NH horse community.

what a crock, get over yourself.  You think you're high and mighty but all you really are is a thief.

[coffeeseven]

the NH horse community is pretty tight and like it or not you will be watched,trust is earned with us and hard to repair when damaged it. maybe you don't care but we come in handy when you need us

ah yes, if you defy the rules of the NH horse community, you will be punished. . . you will be jailed. . . you will be stolen from. . . .and you will die. . . all hail the NH horse community.

what a crock, get over yourself.  You think you're high and mighty but all you really are is a thief.

Amen

[slave_3646]

Hey Joe, when you take someone's property without their permission it's called theft. Your intent for the property after you steal it, your potential profit from theft of the property once you've stolen it, and the fact that a couple of hundred assholes decided that you could 'legally' steal it don't make it any less a theft.

[cyne]

I am here for tha animals and do what I can.The laws are what they are right now..I know the free staters are for less gov. which some things I agree , but when it comes to animal rights, I will always take their side.And I hope the laws get stricter and the penalties get harsher.

  Be careful what you wish for.  The goal of the "Animal Rights" movement is NO use of animals by people.  They believe that animals are not put on this earth for us to use or enjoy, and that domestication is an abomination.   If they get their way you won't have any horses and neither will anyone else. 

  Quote from a leader in the AR movement, PETA founder and president Ingrid Newkirk: 
"There is no hidden agenda. If anybody wonders about — what's this with all these reforms — you can hear us clearly. Our goal is total animal liberation."
- Ingrid Newkirk, "Animal Rights 2002? convention (June 30, 2002)

  But maybe when you said "animal rights" what you really meant was "animal welfare?"   There is a difference, and it's important to recognize it.   

  I can't take a side in this issue, I haven't seen the horses, I've never met the Travises, all I know is what I've read and what I've seen in the videos.   I can't see anything about the horses' care or condition in those videos, but there's no shortage  of evidence of Candia law enforcement's abuse of power, abuse of the law they're hired to uphold.   

[George Donnelly]

And yes , the two fillies were put on my trailer..Actually we had to lift them because they were to weak to get on by walking up the ramp.....

At their age, _ should_ they have been able to walk up a ramp with that angle of inclination? How old are they?

AS far as the worms, that easy, several people saw them in the piles of crap ,including one of your own..

And was it one worm, a thousand, a million? What was the concentration?


It sounds like you had concerns about the horses even before the SPCA/police raid. Did you say anything to Brian or Heidi?

[Russell Kanning]

those of us who would take Brian's side without seeing the horses in question are wrong....

why wouldn't I trust the word of my friend over the thugs?