Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[AntonLee]

Why break the laws instead of changing them?

That's a good point.

I'll head over to the law library with some whiteout right away.

lol that's a good response

[MistyBlue]

That's a good point.

I'll head over to the law library with some whiteout right away.

Okay, that made me laugh, LOL! 

I am hoping the owners get a little more serious about keeping their horses contained though. Twice loose in one week? Neighbor's lawn ruined. I also hope they offer to repair the damages their property made whilst cavorting across someone else's lawn.  Loose horses can be a serious problem for passing traffic too, hitting a deer is tough enough on vehicles...hitting a horse is usually catastrophic for vehicles, humans and horses. 

[AntonLee]

I haven't really heard much about the care of the horses since.  I would have to say that if damage was done to a neighbor I would have to hope that they make good on the damage done by their property.

I would hate to see a horse get hit by a car, not to mention possible injuries to the driver.

[MistyBlue]

No, they reportedly didn't say a thing to the neighbor until the neighbor talked to them about it the next day. Then Heidi offered an apology and nothing else until later on when they asked not to have the police involved and offered payment. By that time the neighbor had already reported the damage done by the loose horses as they assumed the apology would be all that was offered since nobody was willing to offer it or even let the neighbor know it was their animals that caused the damage until the neighbor approached them. Apparently according to neighbors this is the 4th time in 2 weeks the horses got loose, not the second time in a week. And not the first time these same folks have allegedly bothered other peoples' private property without asking or telling them anything...blocking and/or parking in their driveways and building silt walls across driveways not their own and blocking them, etc.
Some of the neighbors are getting annoyed at how private property seems to apply only to Heid and Brian and not their neighbors. 
Apparently the horse enclosure gates may now have locks on them but some folks are worried the locks won't matter if the gates don't stay up.
It's a tough situation all around for everyone I guess.
Horse vs vehicle is often a really bad accident...a vehicle hitting something that weighs 1/4 of the weight of the vehicle can be like a head on collision with another vehicle or even worse...a horse's legs are front bumper height to most cars. Meaning a direct hit can easily cause a 1000 lb solid animal to flip up onto the hood and smash into the windshield.  They're often devastating impacts. There are some gruesome news photos of accidents like this online if you google them...but I wouldn't recommend seeing them for some people since the photos are pretty tough to see.
BTW Anton...I think I read in another thread on here that you're first name is Anthony? My neighbor just bought a couple new Sicilian donkey foals. One came with the name Anthony...I went to see the new arrivals today. Cute lil' buggers when mini donks are young...they look like cartoon characters but sound like fog horns, LOL! If I get a photo of him I'll post it...I think you'd get a kick out of the adorable little donk that shares your name. 

[littlehawk]

Horses often "get loose" for one main reason. They are looking for food.

Or rarely, its a stallion wanting "action"

Littlehawk 

[AntonLee]

hehe Anthony is my middle name actually, but I love donkeys so definitely post.

And. . .private property rights are for all, not just Heidi and Brian. 

[KBCraig]

No, they reportedly didn't say a thing to the neighbor until the neighbor talked to them about it the next day.

"Reportedly"? Has this descended to idle gossip mongering, or do you have something substantial to add?

[MistyBlue]

"Reportedly"? Has this descended to idle gossip mongering, or do you have something substantial to add?

"Reportedly" because I wasn't there personally and heard this from neighbors. Neighbors who aren't horse people...neighbors who just are tired of these folks doing whatever they want to other peoples' property.
Also the loose horses have been reported.

[KBCraig]

"Reportedly"? Has this descended to idle gossip mongering, or do you have something substantial to add?

"Reportedly" because I wasn't there personally and heard this from neighbors. Neighbors who aren't horse people...neighbors who just are tired of these folks doing whatever they want to other peoples' property.
Also the loose horses have been reported.

In other words, "Yes."

[Pat McCotter]

BTW Anton...I think I read in another thread on here that you're first name is Anthony? My neighbor just bought a couple new Sicilian donkey foals. One came with the name Anthony...I went to see the new arrivals today. Cute lil' buggers when mini donks are young...they look like cartoon characters but sound like fog horns, LOL! If I get a photo of him I'll post it...I think you'd get a kick out of the adorable little donk that shares your name. 

Funny thing. I was just reading some Sumerian history the other day and came across a reference that the Sumerians used onagers - or wild Asian asses - to draw their battle chariots.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Kulaani_Korkeasaari.jpg

[MistyBlue]

KBCraig, one of the neighbors tried joining this BB to post their experiences with these folks but they weren't able to as their e-mail wasn't accepted. If they had been able to post here you'd get some info right from them and not gossip.
Or maybe it's all gossip mongering unless it comes from Brian or Heidi?

Pat...that's cool. I never knew anyone had tamed onagers for anything. They're notoriusly tough to tame and train.
That photo gave me the grins...that's one ass-high ass! 

My neighbor's new additions look kind of like this little fellow:
http://www.minidonkey.net/images/miniature_donkey_foal_weba.jpg

[Goble]

Somehow this has gone from an issue of horse theft, to an issue of animal cruelty(unrelated) and now to private property violation(also not related). (I should say, except in the case of state employed thugs.)

All of these issues can be resolved without the police. That is except the horse theft, which is the only circumstance the police might be of some use to remedy, only in this case the servants and protectors are the thieves. That's what this is about. Property disputes are what they are. If someone is being a bad neighbor, that can be handled between two neighbors.

If horses are trespassing onto my property after I've informed the owners of the problem, I'll post signs along my fence line stating that any livestock that is unlawfully deposited upon my property shall be confiscated. I'd also make good on that warning should the policy be violated.

Most of these issues can be handled in civil court or through contracts.

MistyBlue, you seem like a nice person who means well, but you're throwing unrelated evidence at this case. In your opinion, this is a clear and cut case of animal cruelty in which the state was forced to step in between the owners and the animals for the animals' protection. I disagree.

I can't disagree with you over specific facts, I wasn't there, but I can disagree over principles. In your opinion, so it seems, animal suffering supercedes property rights. In my opinion, property rights supercede all others, except in situations of human violence enacted upon other humans.

It doesn't matter how crappy someone is. It doesn't matter how inconsiderate or cruel someone is. It doesn't matter if it's not fair that someone should have to live next to "bad" neighbors. The point is that if I own property, what I do on or to my property is no one else's business.

If Heidi had been contracted to care for these horses to certain specifications, or if Heidi had purchased these horses under conditions of a written contract, then I could see someone having the option of legal recourse. Whether our current way of hashing out contract violations is efficient or not is for another debate. But if any of the horses legally belong to someone else, who has entrusted their care to Heidi, and stipulations have been contracted, then possibly that horse should be confiscated, or compensation of another kind be paid to the owner. Otherwise, the condition of the property is beside the point.
 

[xyz]

If horses are trespassing onto my property after I've informed the owners of the problem, I'll post signs along my fence line stating that any livestock that is unlawfully deposited upon my property shall be confiscated. I'd also make good on that warning should the policy be violated.

How is that any different from the police or dept. of ag. confiscating them after warning?

Most of these issues can be handled in civil court or through contracts.

I don't know about contracts but it will certainly go to court...

It doesn't matter how crappy someone is. It doesn't matter how inconsiderate or cruel someone is. It doesn't matter if it's not fair that someone should have to live next to "bad" neighbors. The point is that if I own property, what I do on or to my property is no one else's business.

I'm sure that the voiceless animals, given a voice, would beg to differ...

If Heidi had been contracted to care for these horses to certain specifications

The "certain specifications" are called LAWS.  They are very specific and the fact that Heidi brought horses into this state makes her subject to them.  Whether y'all like it or not is of no consequence.

[AntonLee]

if there's an obligation then there is proof I agreed to said obligation.  If you're correct this proof will be available with a written signature proving so.  When you find it, let us know.  Otherwise return to your regularly scheduled fantasy land where men with dresses have power and it's fine and dandy for other guys with shiny badges to come and steal your things.  In reality, there are no extra powers granted to them unless you so choose to grant those powers.  I have not personally chosen to grant them power over me.  Until I do, they're just regular old flesh and blood human beings like me.  I don't have the right to steal from them or to hurt them.  They, in turn, do not have the right to do the same to me.

Simple isn't it?  I was where you were mentally once.  I then figured out that hurting others and stealing from them wasn't what I wanted for myself and that I should stop doing so immediately and encourage others to do the same.  Maybe you can tell me, why it is you want to hurt others?  Do you get at thrill out of theft?   

the state has power at the CONSENT of the governed.  Find the consent.  Moving to a place over imaginary lines does not prove consent.  So many times, statists like to tell me I'm not dealing in reality.  Reality is that everyone from cops to judges to nurses and construction workers have the right to own the fruits of their labor since it is an extension of their life.  Heidi and Brian chose to use their labor to buy horses.  What they choose to do with those horses is their business only, and is not and never will be ANY of yours until they allow you some sort of business with them. 

Animals can have all the rights as soon as they let us know about them.  Until then, it's just your opinion.  That's the fact of the matter.  I'll most definitely recognize their rights as soon as they recognize mine. 

Excuse me, Mr. Grizzly Bear.  It is my right to life, liberty and property.  Therefore it would be wrong of you to violate my rights by eating me.

it's very easy to be a troll spreading the ideas of theft and violence against those who have not committed the same against you.  Especially when you're too cowardly to even let it be known your name.

pathetic.

[xyz]

.... Full of sound and fury signifying nothing....