Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[margomaps]

Hey, Stephen Sprowl has a website http://www.stephensprowl.com/

From that site: "SPCA: We scope out your most valuable animals for us to take and sell!"

I'd be somewhere around last in line to defend the actions taken against Brian and his family, but is there any evidence supporting the above claim?

[Sam A. Robrin]

From mises.org:


Shenandoah (1965)

This film starring Jimmy Stewart portrays a widower named Anderson at the time of the War between the States who refuses to join either side and just wants to be left alone. His crusty independence and anti-war attitude have made this film a libertarian favourite. As an exercise in nostalgia, Mr. Anderson's rugged individualism is enjoyable. But don't forget how impractical it is... What if Americans all started minding their own business like him? Imagine if all Americans, like Mr. Anderson, focussed primarily on raising virtuous, hard-working children and cultivating their own property instead of "accepting responsibility" as world leaders and getting involved in every two-bit border conflict on the globe and starving Iraqi children out. Here's some favourite quotes from the film:

"Virginia needs all of her sons, Mr. Anderson."
"That might be so, Johnson. But these are my sons. They don't belong to
the state. We never asked anything of the state & never expected anything."
"What's confiscate mean, Pa?" "Steal."
"Like all wars I suppose... The undertakers are winning it."

[Kat Kanning]

Have you watched that 20/20 piece?

[slave_3646]

Try not to see this in the way that the mainstream does, because they're dead wrong. See this for what it is; a property rights issue.

Most people believe it is inhumane to mistreat an animal.

Uh huh. And most people believe that the government is only here to help too. Is an animal property in your mind, or not? And to use a line my mother used to use on me on you... if everyone else was jumping off a bridge, would you?

[Coconut]

I'd be somewhere around last in line to defend the actions taken against Brian and his family...

You'd be in line?

[BillKauffman]

Try not to see this in the way that the mainstream does, because they're dead wrong. See this for what it is; a property rights issue.

Most people believe it is inhumane to mistreat an animal.

Is an animal property in your mind, or not?

Would it be right to purposely torture a domestic animal?

[leetninja]

i think if anyone abuses an animal it is wrong. 

You say you believe that you own your animals and while I am inclined to agree ... if you owned say a dog and used it for dog fighting I would want that dog taken away from you.  Do you think Mike Vick should be a free man and that the government overstepped its bounds with him?  Do you condone his actions with those dogs?

Google "Dusty the cat" and see what comes up.  The short version: kids TORTURED a cat, posted it on youtube, pissed off 4chan and the internet in general and then were arrested and charged for animal abuse.  I am glad that those kids were arrested.

If it isnt the governments place to step in and help animals that are ACTUALLY ABUSED then who will or can?

There has to be a line somewhere. 

I'm not saying that Heidi and Brian abused their horses in fact I believe they took very good care of them from what little I have seen.  I also think that Sprowl is a complete jackass.  That said I think Sprowl should have found some horses that perhaps were really neglected or abused in some way rather than playing out this personal vendetta against the Travis' and their animals.

[Mike Barskey]

Try not to see this in the way that the mainstream does, because they're dead wrong. See this for what it is; a property rights issue.

Most people believe it is inhumane to mistreat an animal.

I wonder what the etymology of "humane" is. It does have "human" in it. My take was that it originated as meaning "to behave like humans should in a civilized, peaceful society." In which case it would be almost nonsensical to be "inhumane to animals."

Even if I'm wrong about the meaning of "humane" though, if animals are property (and I think they are) then does any other human have the right to aggress against you if you treat your property poorly or "inhumanely?" Or should ostracism or education or compassion or possibly even vigilante-style animal-rescue (i.e., stealing the "abuser's" property/animals to "rescue" them an ddeal with the repercussions) be the recourse?

[Mike Barskey]

There has to be a line somewhere. 

There does? There has to be a line after which it is alright to initiate aggression against another person?

[kellie]

Try not to see this in the way that the mainstream does, because they're dead wrong. See this for what it is; a property rights issue.

Most people believe it is inhumane to mistreat an animal.

Even if I'm wrong about the meaning of "humane" though, if animals are property (and I think they are) then does any other human have the right to aggress against you if you treat your property poorly or "inhumanely?" Or should ostracism or education or compassion or possibly even vigilante-style animal-rescue (i.e., stealing the "abuser's" property/animals to "rescue" them an ddeal with the repercussions) be the recourse?

I'm not willing to take the position that people should be able to do WHATEVER they want with their animals. I'm aware of the implications of this position, and I'm not sure that a traditional libertarian position of property works so well when we're talking about animals.  I certainly favor a more vigilante-style response to animal abuse. But I would be happy to see anyone, even the government, steal an animal in extreme cases of torture. However, I'd be a hypocrite to advocate something that I myself would be unwilling to do. 

[coffeeseven]

so what shelters are on their farm?

I dont' care and I guess Brian doesn't feel he has to answer you.
There is nothing the spca could say that would make me feel it is right to take their horses. I don't really want to dig into their private lives to decide if the use of force is appropriate.
Even if they were somehow mistreating the animals ... I don't think I have a right to take them away. The horses are the Travis' problem. I support them getting them back from the thugs.

Agreed and it's probably high time to stop trying to fix the problem until asked to do so. I can only speak for me. I'm pissed and would do whatever was necessary to help including driving out to help clean or build. I'm hands off until the request comes for hands on.

I hate bullies and Sprowl is the worst kind.

[Kat Kanning]

Why does there have to be a line somewhere?  Can't you even begin to imagine a non-governmental solution to the problem of someone abusing animals?

[Sam A. Robrin]

Hey, Stephen Sprowl has a website http://www.stephensprowl.com/

His telephone number is easy to remember, too: (603) SPACY-21.
Aren't mnemonics fun?

[kellie]

Why does there have to be a line somewhere?  Can't you even begin to imagine a non-governmental solution to the problem of someone abusing animals?

Imagine if people took a moral responsibility to do something themselves whenever they saw an injustice, rather than having the safety and anonymity of just calling up the government to do their moral duty for them.  Perhaps people would really consider the situation and decide if a so-called injustice was really so bad that it warranted intervention.  I suspect many people would then decide that aggressing against their neighbors isn't really necessary. 

[slave_3646]

There has to be a line somewhere. 

There does? There has to be a line after which it is alright to initiate aggression against another person?

Ditto Mike. That was where I wanted to take this, to that imaginary line. I suppose that's part of helping people to realize how they need to grow. I know that not too long ago I wouldn't have had a second thought about 'doing the right thing' by 'protecting the animal'. It wasn't until we had a run in with the local know it all that wanted to impose her values and opinion on us that I realized that any imposition of my values on someone else was wrong, and that to do so would be to violate their rights.

People have rights; animals do not. Animals are property, plain and simple.

I love my animals. Don't you dare try to force me to take care of them the way you think I ought to.