Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[AntonLee]

from the video I saw, 4.  Far from death's door.

[Friday]

This thread is one of the saddest things I've read in all my years with the FSP.  I'm embarrassed and ashamed.

I've never raised horses; but I know what horseshit smells like.

The contradictions... the easily verifiable facts... the absolutely ludicrous claims that it's a conspiracy by the government, AND the NHSPCA, AND the vets, AND the volunteers donating their time and money to provide short-term (so far) care for other people's horses...

The apparent opinion that, if someone is "one of us", they can do no wrong; and if someone works for the government, or just used to work for the government, or works side by side with the government on a short-term basis, they can do no right (and at least one of the people participating in the discussion works for the government, and at least one IS the government  )

The blind refusal to ask relevant questions... well, that's not true, one or two people on this thread have, and have been smited for it.

The thunderous silence of those in a position to not be able to help but know the truth.....

Then, even when presented with video evidence of what some of the removed horses look like, just making up more excuses to explain it away....

The inevitable, and laughably inappropriate, comparisons to Nazis...

For what it's worth, I think cruelty to animals is reprehensible, I don't condone it, I don't wish to socialize or do business with anyone who thinks it's fun, funny or acceptable. 

[J Leblanc]

I am Joe LeBlanc  and for those of you that think that a horse can't gain 30 plus pounds in 18 days , don't know what you are talking about..So lets point out the real facts shall we..FACT.. the two fillies recieve 12 to 15 pounds of hay and 7 pounds of good grain aday each .FACT.. they were at a level 1 when they were pick up and have gained over 30 pounds since..FACT..thier gut were filled with worms to the point that they did not recieve enough of the nutrients and they shit out worms for 4 days after a proper worming many over 8 inches long.FACT..thier coat were matted with shit and the only way to clean them was to shave them down which revealed rain rot..FACT.. Steve from the spca could give a shit about the free staters and has no personal axe to grind with Travis or his wife FACT...niether could I...FACT.. the horses have day turnout and were in for the interview . they are also in large stalls..FACT..My horse nikki is 25 yrs old and has medical issues and has never got anyway near as bad as Travis wifes horses that we have.FACT..Deerfield vet has no political agender , they only care about the animals.FACT..a free stater works for us 4 days a week and will not pick sides accept for the horses.So stop trying to play the politic game with this case.The few free staters that I have meet I like and i agree with most of the ideas they have ,BUT some of your party is always looking for shit to bitch about..This matter should not be one of them.....I do believe that if Travis and his wife had fixed the shelters back in dec of 08 and had been more diligent with the horses care no one would have bothered them ..Live and learn. but please shut up   Also, I see my phone number was put up.. the only number that works for me is the 895 number..Don't waste my time with bullshit calls Know, what your talking about Our property is posted so dont come to see the horse unless you have permission from candia police and you make an appointment with me first.Trust me I will press charges and I will protect my property  Also to Travis and his wife, do a better jod with your horse and you won't be bothered ........... Good luck















































 

[THEGENERAL]

I am Joe LeBlanc  and for those of you that think that a horse can't gain 30 plus pounds in 18 days , don't know what you are talking about..So lets point out the real facts shall we..FACT.. the two fillies recieve 12 to 15 pounds of hay and 7 pounds of good grain aday each .FACT.. they were at a level 1 when they were pick up and have gained over 30 pounds since..FACT..thier gut were filled with worms to the point that they did not recieve enough of the nutrients and they shit out worms for 4 days after a proper worming many over 8 inches long.FACT..thier coat were matted with shit and the only way to clean them was to shave them down which revealed rain rot..FACT.. Steve from the spca could give a shit about the free staters and has no personal axe to grind with Travis or his wife FACT...niether could I...FACT.. the horses have day turnout and were in for the interview . they are also in large stalls..FACT..My horse nikki is 25 yrs old and has medical issues and has never got anyway near as bad as Travis wifes horses that we have.FACT..Deerfield vet has no political agender , they only care about the animals.FACT..a free stater works for us 4 days a week and will not pick sides accept for the horses.So stop trying to play the politic game with this case.The few free staters that I have meet I like and i agree with most of the ideas they have ,BUT some of your party is always looking for shit to bitch about..This matter should not be one of them.....I do believe that if Travis and his wife had fixed the shelters back in dec of 08 and had been more diligent with the horses care no one would have bothered them ..Live and learn. but please shut up   Also, I see my phone number was put up.. the only number that works for me is the 895 number..Don't waste my time with bullshit calls Know, what your talking about Our property is posted so dont come to see the horse unless you have permission from candia police and you make an appointment with me first.Trust me I will press charges and I will protect my property  Also to Travis and his wife, do a better jod with your horse and you won't be bothered ........... Good luck

So, may I ask... (dare I ask), would those horses have died in the care of Travis and his wife?

How much did it cost you to bring a horse back from that condition... Level 1? 

I don't think the real issue is so much the horses, in this whole topic, than it is a persons rights being violated.  As much as it pains me to say, taking the horses... even though they might have been sick, is against their rights.

Now you can argue that horses have rights and if you did that then none of us would really be allowed to own them... right?  I mean they should be able to run free and wild...

Just my 2 cents.... and I know how so few enjoy that but I didn't have change for a dollar.

[Russell Kanning]

Sandy I'd feel the same whether I know Brian or not. The government and its willing allies are taking people's stuph. I don't know all the facts and do not think I have a right to get them. This is not the darkest day for the FSP clan. I do tend to agree with those that don't use force against others and disagree with the thugs who are known for it. When the pressure comes from government, I am not going to hand over my friends.

[cyne]

I don't think the real issue is so much the horses, in this whole topic, than it is a persons rights being violated.  As much as it pains me to say, taking the horses... even though they might have been sick, is against their rights.

Now you can argue that horses have rights and if you did that then none of us would really be allowed to own them... right?  I mean they should be able to run free and wild...

  Horses do not have legal rights but there are  laws relating to their care.   Owners, not animals, have rights under the law but along with those rights there are certain responsibilities, and in NH those responsibilities are specified by statute.   

  Still, people are usually given warnings and some chance to correct any problems before animals are actually taken.  It looks as if that didn't happen in this case.   I wonder why. 




 

[kellie]

This thread is one of the saddest things I've read in all my years with the FSP.  I'm embarrassed and ashamed.

I've never raised horses; but I know what horseshit smells like.

The contradictions... the easily verifiable facts... the absolutely ludicrous claims that it's a conspiracy by the government, AND the NHSPCA, AND the vets, AND the volunteers donating their time and money to provide short-term (so far) care for other people's horses...

The apparent opinion that, if someone is "one of us", they can do no wrong; and if someone works for the government, or just used to work for the government, or works side by side with the government on a short-term basis, they can do no right (and at least one of the people participating in the discussion works for the government, and at least one IS the government  )

The blind refusal to ask relevant questions... well, that's not true, one or two people on this thread have, and have been smited for it.

The thunderous silence of those in a position to not be able to help but know the truth.....

Then, even when presented with video evidence of what some of the removed horses look like, just making up more excuses to explain it away....

The inevitable, and laughably inappropriate, comparisons to Nazis...

Thanks for posting. I've been thinking the same things.

I think this is a situation that makes many of us uncomfortable and we don't know quite how to respond.  So, kudos to those who have opted to keep their mouth's shut rather than make brash accusations and biased assumptions.   

[Zero]

FACT.. they were at a level 1 when they were pick up [sic]...

Really?  If I understand correctly, this is what level 1 looks like.  I haven't seen anything like this in the news accounts.  I've been to the Travis' place and not seen anything like this.  Why haven't those of us following the story been blasted by such disturbing images?  I think Joe Leblanc's FACTS are sometimes lies.

Jonathan Ray

[AntonLee]

I don't see any pictures that show this either.  I don't have all the facts so I'll side with those who are innocent until proven guilty as opposed to siding with the known criminals.

[Me]

Actually, they WERE given a warning. By NH law the first visit by the SPCA, the one where they were refused the ability to see the condition of the animals, was their warning. Visit number two, with certain perimeters such as lack of shelter, food, and body condition, results in seizure with the animals being able to be returned.


If they had nothing to hide, then why didn't they just let the guy come on the property and see the animals. It's a well known fact that if he had been able to see the animals back in NOV and they had issues that they would have been given time to rectify the issue, get educated on the NH laws, etc BEFORE they had to seize the horses. All they needed to do was let him see the animals!

You all believe that they were not in the wrong but you all drove down there to help build shelters. If they weren't in the wrong, why did you help build shelters? I mean, who gives a rats ass right? They're property, they don't need shelter. So why go through the expense and effort?

And for those of you who need glasses, take another look at those foals. A body score of 4 does not mean that scapula, tail head, hips, and full ribs are showing.

Take another look. Those foals sit at a 1-2.

1 Poor      Bone structure easily noticeable    Bone structure easily noticeable    Bone structure easily noticeable    Ribs protruding prominently    Spinous processes projecting prominently    Tailhead, pinbones, and hook bones projecting prominently

2 Very Thin    Bone structure faintly discernible    Bone structure faintly discernible    Bone structure faintly discernible    Ribs prominent    Slight fat covering over base of spinous processes. Transverse processes of lumbar vertebrae feel rounded. Spinous processes are prominent    Tailhead prominent


The horse use as an example of 1 is VERY much a 1...could even be a no score if that was remotely possible.

[cyne]

Actually, they WERE given a warning. By NH law the first visit by the SPCA, the one where they were refused the ability to see the condition of the animals, was their warning. Visit number two, with certain perimeters such as lack of shelter, food, and body condition, results in seizure with the animals being able to be returned.


If they had nothing to hide, then why didn't they just let the guy come on the property and see the animals. It's a well known fact that if he had been able to see the animals back in NOV and they had issues that they would have been given time to rectify the issue, get educated on the NH laws, etc BEFORE they had to seize the horses. All they needed to do was let him see the animals!

What you are calling a "first visit" was no visit, because he didn't get to inspect anything and there was nothing to warn them about.  He was INVITED to come back when the property owner was present, that is in the first video.  The owner was well within his rights to refuse access, and it was reasonable of him to want to be present during any inspection.   Why didn't Sprowl take him up on that offer?   Why did he wait all winter and then get a warrant, instead of accepting that invitation?   The actual visit number one, according to reports, was the one with the warrant.   Or DID he make a visit that hasn't been reported here?   

[KBCraig]

Our property is posted so dont come to see the horse unless you have permission from candia police and you make an appointment with me first.Trust me I will press charges and I will protect my property

Don't you believe the Travis family has the same property rights?

[Me]

You can twist this any way you want to....because I know you will.

The first visit was the visit he tried to get on the property for, by NH law.

I'm sorry, but if I got a call from my farm manager that the SPCA was here to see the horses, I would tell my trusted, hired help to let them see them then. He couldn't take anything at that time - legally, I had no risk of loosing any "property" at that time. OR I would have said "give me xyz minutes and I'll be there to personally walk you around".

Not the way it was handled, which was the property owner not even bothering to return to his home to talk to the guy in person. Not even after the police were called to come out.

I mean how many red flags needed to be waived. First the SPCA asked to see the animals. They say no, and don't even bother to come home. Then the cops show up, still, no one comes home and yet no one gives the farm manager the OK to see the horses.

The way I see it, they either didn't trust their farm manager to escort law enforcement around the property OR they had something to hide. Maybe both....

And from experience, they likely had numerous phone calls from Animal Control telling them they needed to fix their situation.

Contrary to your belief, law enforcement can't just come onto your property and start taking things. As you can see, it takes a warrant. And a warrant takes A LOT of time AND requires a LOT of proof to get. This isn't Law and Order folks, this is real life.

[Me]

Yes, they do.

But unlike the Travis' I'd bet you anything if the SPCA showed up he'd let them see his property and horses with out a fight. Because he has nothing to hide.

Get it yet?

Our property is posted so dont come to see the horse unless you have permission from candia police and you make an appointment with me first.Trust me I will press charges and I will protect my property

Don't you believe the Travis family has the same property rights?

[Russell Kanning]

and in NH those responsibilities are specified by statute.  

oh goodie