Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[lastlady]

My friends in the "animal rights" movement have caused no damage. Unless you consider discussions, creating art, building websites, and writing books damage, I personally don't. Real damage has a real victim.

[BillKauffman]

The goal of the "Animal Rights" movement is NO use of animals by people.

The "Animal Rights" movement like the "Liberty" movement is very diverse and very broad.

Isn't that a bit of a generalization?

I was just going to write the same thing. I consider myself an animal lover and look forward to the day where we honor and respect life, even if we take an animals life, while they are here, I wish they were treated with love and compassion. I do so admire the way the native americans respected and treated life.

I know a woman who is a vegan and works with animal rescue, she despises PETA. I have friends who are involved in the animal rights movement, they are considered terrorists by the gov, and harassed for their beliefs.

Thanks!

[coffeeseven]

I think we all need to lighten up a little bit and listen to some music.

[KBCraig]

I see an earlier post I put up is now missing..So much for an open forum.

What did this earlier post say?

I've been on this forum since shortly after it was founded several years ago, and I can assure you that none of the administrators are prone to deleting posts. Even horribly personally insulting posts are allowed to stand.

Perhaps you wrote something but didn't correctly hit the "Post" button, or perhaps the Innernetz Gremlinz ate it.

Here is a complete list of your posts (8 of them, at the moment):

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2815;sa=showPosts

[Me]

Post upon request of Anonymous:

***************

(Brian states) -

Hoo, boy! Another round. I was trying to stay out, but they keep pulling me back IN! Long post. Sorry.Much of the info from this "anonymous" poster is, like much of the testimony on this thread: part hearsay with bias, part observation without context, part ignorance, and some truth.Heidi put her farm up for sale last year and moved all of her horses to New Hampshire. They are all here, except for the 12 that were stolen by the government. In Colorado, she was involved in a horse shelter near her farm, helping them with their rescue horses. Heidi and the rescue moved horses back and forth between their two farms as conditions and training regimen required. Late last year, after Heidi moved her horses from Colorado, the person who ran the rescue died suddenly and unexpectedly from a heart attack at age 45. The horse rescue is in the process of shutting down, and Heidi has offered her barn to temporarily house some rescued horses. She even offset part of the rent of one of her tenants, Pete, as long as he helped the rescue however they needed him. Pete is essentially working for the rescue, with Heidi paying the bill by lowering his rent.

Because of market conditions, the unique nature of Heidi's farm, and the fact that the tenants trashed the place, the house has not sold and the bank foreclosed on it. Any people or horses still on the farm are squatting on the bank's property; it's out of Heidi's control.

[Response]
So, those 4 horses (not sure of proper name spellings), Minerva (who looks a lot like the grey mare from Heidi's wedding photos to Brian 4 years ago), Prince (a chestnut gelding with a bad foot deformation), Kiki (a bay mare in foal to the unknown sire, according to Pete, Heidi thought a paint stallion got him with her some how.  She had tried to breed her before but didn't think she took. So Heidi tried to breed a mare that wasn't hers?), and Storm (a young bay gelding with a horrendous leg injury. Heidi told Pete to just leave it alone.)  Pete tells a very different version of Brian's story, go out and ask him, I did...oh, and I I took pictures too.  If those are not Heidi's horses, then why did she ask Pete to find a trailer and bring them out to NH?  If those are not Heidi's horses, just "squatting", then we should call the authorities and get them removed and adopted out.  That mare is due in about a month and I highly doubt she's had proper nutrition, wormings or vaccinations.  The gelding's leg needs serious attention, and they all need their feet trimmed badly.  By the way, per Officer Massey of Douglas County Sheriffs office, Colorado, Pete gave a statement that the horses belong to Heidi Fredrick and under her direction.  Officer Massey said she has been called to investigate Heidi's farm in Colorado 34 times!

I'll let Pete know he's squatting on bank owned property that he's paying Heidi to live on.

(Brian's statement) -

My guess is that the rescue is using the barn to house the worst cases so they can place the better horses. They can't easily get rid of horses that are suffering because of the recent ban on slaughterhouses in this country. Thanks again to the "animal lovers" for that one. The only way I have found to put down a horse is to have a guy, whom you have to pay in cash, take your horse to feed to his mountain lions. If you have unwanted horses that are healthy, you can sell them to the "Trippers" in Mexico that take the horses and train their cowboys who use ropes to trip the horses. They use unwanted horses for training because the cattle are too valuable.It's sick and disgusting because the horses live their last days in horrible torture, after which they are sent to the Mexican slaughterhouses for a profit. But guess what? It's perfectly legal. Heidi would never do that, but is now being targeted because her horses fall short of someone else's image.Heidi is not a traditional horse breeder. While most breeders hire trainers and barn managers, Heidi does most of the work, only hiring people to help her with the cleaning and sometimes grooming of the horses. She'd rather put her money into quality food and breeding stock.

[Response]
Has anyone seen what well cared for, well groomed, well fed, well conditioned Arabian show/race horses look like?  Here is a link to Arabian farms all over the United States, http://www.arabhorse.com/arabian-horse-farms/continent/usa  pick one, then look at Heidi's horses.  Cut the BS Brian, you know perfectly well the condition of her place in Colorado was atrocious and the horses were far from clean, groomed or well fed.  She took short cuts because she's unorganized and couldn't handle it all.  She would work a horse one day and not touch it again for a month.  She never finishes ANYTHING she starts.  She collected so much junk and just left it all laying around. There was so much crap in the barn you could barely walk down the aisle.

(Brian's statement) -

This kind of do-it-yourself attitude is foreign in the horse showing and racing industries, where the people pride themselves on who they can get as a trainer or who they had cocktails with at the last show. Heidi refuses to play that game and is seen as a pariah because of it. This continued at the race track last year, where she hired kids looking for work to help with cleaning and feeding while she spent nights in the tack room so she could feed early and work her horses on the race track before going to work in the morning. How many people ride their own race horses? The track is a political place and run by the old guard. Doing it yourself is not the way it has traditionally been done so they separate you out as a short timer and risk. These people want only tried and known trainers on their grounds. In other words, there is a game to be played or you will be targeted.In spite of this, she has sold some champion horses, and has some great prospects still in her program.

[Response]
How many of those prospects have been injured to the point of not being able to show or race?

(Brian's statement) -

"Anonymous", if it is who I think she is, sued Heidi last year because she says Heidi promised her one of her champion prospects. The judge disagreed, but "anonymous" had no money to pay Heidi back her legal fees or boarding costs so we just left it alone. Just before she sued Heidi, "anonymous" was going through foreclosure and begged Heidi to take her horses off the property so they bank wouldn't get them. She also asked Heidi to help her move her belongings, which she did. Before that, "anonymous" needed hay and feed for the horses at her farm and Heidi brought them to her whenever needed without asking for repayment. Heidi even brought a basket of food to "anonymous"'s house 70 miles up in the mountains, because her fridge was empty. So now "anonymous" is upset that she lost a horse she never owned, and Heidi is, again, being attacked for being unconventional. Sounds like some of the horse people posting on this board. Heidi tries to help, and is thanked by being threatened with the guns of the state.

[Response]
The lawsuit...ah yes, which Heidi brought upon herself.  You were not there Brian, and Heidi LIED to you...as she has done many times.  Heidi lied in court and as a matter of FACT, the judge did NOT award Heidi victory.  There is a court order in place with AHA that will not allow Heidi to register that filly, as it is NOT hers.  Anonymous paid for that horse in full; but Heidi decided to keep it after it was born because it was a nice filly. Heidi LIED about the entire agreement, and even though there was proof of an agreement (along with witnesses testifying to the agreement) the judge couldn't determine what was going on since Heidi lied repeatedly in court, so it was left up in the air. Brian, you claim in one statement that the horse never belonged to "anonymous" then in your next statement say that Heidi sued her for board on that horse.  Make up your mind... you can't sue someone for board if they don't own the horse. By the way, Anonymous did not ask for Heidi's help in moving... Heidi STOLE property off Anonymous' farm,in her absence.  If you recall; even the police showed up as you were stealing the property.

Heidi seems to forget about the many horses Anonymous cared for, for Heidi...without asking for payment.  One was an orphaned filly whose dam "died" while under the care of Heidi. Heidi knew the filly would have no chance of surviving at her barn; so she asked "anonymous' to help her out and care for this orphan filly.  By the way, the filly thrived wonderfully once she was off Heidi's property!  Heidi knows she lied, and that is all that matters at this point.  That champion prospect, that is owed to Anonymous, is now likely a stunted, worm infested 2 year old that is not Sweepstakes, registered or trained...basically, worthless.  By the way, have you found all those health certificates and coggins papers for all 29 horses you moved?  What about their registration papers that you claim to have for all of them?

(Brian's statement) -

The "cruelty investigation" that was mentioned in the paper and on TV was closed to the satisfaction of the investigator with no charges filed and no horses seized. Over a period of months, the animal control officer carefully took a look at the conditions of all of Heidi's horses, talked to witnesses and Heidi's vet, and determined that there was no negligence going on. To use this as evidence that there was a pattern of abuse is correct, except it is not a pattern of Heidi abusing her horses. It is a pattern of abuse against Heidi from the government, using spurned busybodies as their justification.The horses would be much better served if the people who have an ax to grind with Heidi would not use the power of the government to achieve their goals. Now she must spend money defending herself when that money could go into care of the horses.

[Response]
Really Brian...that money would have gone to the horses?  If you had the money to use for the horses, why didn't you USE IT FOR THE HORSES in the first place?  $20K would have gone a long way in fencing, shelters and feed.  You are spinning your wheels with all this government conspiracy talk, hiding behind your views and not addressing the fact that Heidi takes on more than she can handle, the farm is a shithole mess, the horses do not have adequate living conditions, care or feed.  What the hell was she even thinking moving 29 horses to NH to a property not properly set up to handle them in the first place?  Cramming them into a converted school bus?  Poor planning and doing things bass-ackwards, typical Heidi.  Having that many horses is a full time job, and needs a full time staff  with proper management.

YOU Brian, with all your videos and antics and your "I'm not going to do what you tell me to do" mind set, has only helped put your wife in a terrible legal situation, one that could have easily been settled quietly, without her dirty laundry spilling all over the internet.  Easier to comply with state law than having your reputation ruined forever, and in the horse business it is forever.  You've made this into a fiasco without any thought or consideration to the damage it would do to your wife.  Do you even care?  Okay, so you don't agree with the law, that's fine, but when it's all said and done, the out come will be the same.  Does Heidi realize if there is a ruling against her AHA will probably ban her for life?  This is not about property rights Brian, this is about poor animal husbandry, plain and simple.

***************

[Lloyd Danforth]

I see an earlier post I put up is now missing..So much for an open forum.

What did this earlier post say?

I've been on this forum since shortly after it was founded several years ago, and I can assure you that none of the administrators are prone to deleting posts. Even horribly personally insulting posts are allowed to stand.

Perhaps you wrote something but didn't correctly hit the "Post" button, or perhaps the Innernetz Gremlinz ate it.

Here is a complete list of your posts (8 of them, at the moment):

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2815;sa=showPosts

Perhaps he uses the word: "Asshole' too often. 

[AntonLee]

anonymous telling stories again.  Maybe anonymous should come out and show themselves, as most of the people here are out front with their identities.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Move along!  No Heroes to see here!

[Russell Kanning]

I see an earlier post I put up is now missing..So much for an open forum.

I've been on this forum since shortly after it was founded several years ago, and I can assure you that none of the administrators are prone to deleting posts. Even horribly personally insulting posts are allowed to stand.

Perhaps he uses the word: "Asshole' too often. 

We never said this was an open forum.
I sometimes delete posts are posters.
I have some people in this thread on ignore.
I haven't deleted any posts in this thread, but someone else might have.
This isn't the best place to argue about how to raise horses. Sometimes we get sidetracked and call them other people's property.

[Russell Kanning]

Move along!  No Heroes to see here!

Lloyd "I am no Hero" Danforth
Do you hang out with Sir Charles?

[Russell Kanning]

For example, why are they simultaneously claiming Heidi has committed mass cruelty to animals AND are trying to return the horses to her? That strikes me as contradictory. Can anyone reconcile those two facts?

they want control and /or money

[cyne]

My friends in the "animal rights" movement have caused no damage. Unless you consider discussions, creating art, building websites, and writing books damage, I personally don't. Real damage has a real victim.

  Not all AR activists are terrorists, of course - but the movement does tend to celebrate and encourage such behavior.  Yes, real damage has a real victim, but the damage can be done without violence.  Even when the AR people do their work through the legislature,  the damage and the victims are real.  At least when they work at passing bad laws we have a chance to fight them. 

  If your friends believe it's wrong for humans to own animals, and if they don't want to use animal products, that's their business, their choice.   But the AR movement is about trying to get everyone else to conform to their ideas, by whatever means necessary.   I'd think that the Free Staters or anyone interested in protecting personal freedoms  might object to that kind of thing.   

[lastlady]

My friends in the "animal rights" movement have caused no damage. Unless you consider discussions, creating art, building websites, and writing books damage, I personally don't. Real damage has a real victim.

  Not all AR activists are terrorists, of course - but the movement does tend to celebrate and encourage such behavior.  Yes, real damage has a real victim, but the damage can be done without violence.  Even when the AR people do their work through the legislature,  the damage and the victims are real.  At least when they work at passing bad laws we have a chance to fight them. 

  If your friends believe it's wrong for humans to own animals, and if they don't want to use animal products, that's their business, their choice.   But the AR movement is about trying to get everyone else to conform to their ideas, by whatever means necessary.   I'd think that the Free Staters or anyone interested in protecting personal freedoms  might object to that kind of thing.   

Although there is truth to some of what you say. In my personal experience I think you are over generalizing. I don't have many friends, the few I have who are really into animals are some of the nicest, most NON JUDGMENTAL people I know.

They own animals, they love animals and they wish to change the current paradigm through voluntary means. Not everyone chooses the path of force.

It's important to remember there are a lot of different types of people not all of them will fit in your box.

[grasshopper]

 Or I have a friend at the NSA that can send over a Sat. to see the horsies.
I hope this all turns out to be a mistake on all sides.
Sometimes peole with "good intentions" can cause a lot of damage.   I know this wil work out.
Ed

[cyne]

Although there is truth to some of what you say. In my personal experience I think you are over generalizing. I don't have many friends, the few I have who are really into animals are some of the nicest, most NON JUDGMENTAL people I know.

They own animals, they love animals and they wish to change the current paradigm through voluntary means. Not everyone chooses the path of force.

It's important to remember there are a lot of different types of people not all of them will fit in your box.

 It's not my box.   First, being "really into animals" has nothing to do with it.   Yes, people who are "into animals" are my favorite people.   I am so "into animals" that I've earned my living by taking care of them and training them, all my adult life.  Animals are both my work and my hobby.   I know animals, and I know the politics.  

 Rod and Patti Strand wrote a book about this issue, _The Hijacking of the Humane Movement_.  A review here: http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/hijack.htm describes it in a nutshell.  The book is out of print but used copies can be found, if you're interested.  

If the changes your friends seek are about the welfare of the animals rather than the rights of animals, and if they aren't in agreement with the goals of the AR movement,  then by what logic  can they be described as being for animal rights?    If something doesn't look like a  duck, walk like a duck, or quack like a duck, then it probably is not a duck.