Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[lastlady]

Although there is truth to some of what you say. In my personal experience I think you are over generalizing. I don't have many friends, the few I have who are really into animals are some of the nicest, most NON JUDGMENTAL people I know.

They own animals, they love animals and they wish to change the current paradigm through voluntary means. Not everyone chooses the path of force.

It's important to remember there are a lot of different types of people not all of them will fit in your box.

 It's not my box.   First, being "really into animals" has nothing to do with it.   Yes, people who are "into animals" are my favorite people.   I am so "into animals" that I've earned my living by taking care of them and training them, all my adult life.  Animals are both my work and my hobby.   I know animals, and I know the politics.  

 Rod and Patti Strand wrote a book about this issue, _The Hijacking of the Humane Movement_.  A review here: http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/hijack.htm describes it in a nutshell.  The book is out of print but used copies can be found, if you're interested.  

If the changes your friends seek are about the welfare of the animals rather than the rights of animals, and if they aren't in agreement with the goals of the AR movement,  then by what logic  can they be described as being for animal rights?    If something doesn't look like a  duck, walk like a duck, or quack like a duck, then it probably is not a duck.  

You need to re-read my posts.

[erisian]

You need to re-read my posts.

You need to reread the posts about the difference between animal rights and animal welfare. The animal rights movement is not interested in your freedom or your rights. If your friends think that they are in favor of the animal rights agenda, then they are in favor of no human use of animals for any purpose. There's nothing voluntary about it. They are anti-freedom. They want to impose their own twisted version of morality on everyone else, through legislation or any other means including terrorism.

If your friends are not in favor of the use of legislation (state-imposed violence) nor direct violence against animal ownership and use, then they are not in favor of the animal rights agenda, they are merely confused. The ultimate goal of the animal rights movement is to end all animal ownership and use, period. If you can't understand that, then go ahead and identify yourself as an animal rights supporter, but don't be surprised when armed thugs drop by your house to steal or liberate-by-killing all your animals, including your goldfish.

[BillKauffman]

through legislation or any other means including terrorism.

Could you define terrorism as you use it in this context?

[J Leblanc]

I see another post of mine has disapeered , at least it was up over night,I also did not here from the member about looking at the horses...If your members want any more info I will be post else where.I have told a few of your members that sensorship is alive and well on this forum ..they are pissed.I guess free speech is only for free staters ..good luck to all ,now we won't listen to you at all..good by  J leblanc  

[Lloyd Danforth]

Bye!

[erisian]

Could you define terrorism as you use it in this context?

The use of targeted violence against persons or property for a political purpose.

Here are lots of specific examples.

The firebombings of the car and home of two UC Santa Cruz researchers earlier this month reveal an unwelcome reality: Animal rights extremism is getting worse... (Full Story)

[AntonLee]

Leblanc's posts typify the reasons I don't want to send my child to government school.

[mongo]

Hi, haven't posted anything until NOW, but I did read the horse corner blog or whatever forum some of the horse folks came from. It's like there's one universe where horses have no rights, and another where people don't. There is just no way they can comprehend your opinions without calling you wackos (and, had I posted, MY opinions too!) and believe me, there's heaps o' loathsome statists aplenty out yonder!

Incidentally, you have no rights. Once you understand this, things will become clearer. Now, I expect someone to get all excited and go on about the constitution, and how a Wise God entrusted it to Mankind and the blessed Founders, O Praise Them. But She was just kidding. And I don't think anybody got to J'raxis's point about where you might think those rights came from, if it were not "The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in sheerest samite, delivered Excalibur from the bosom of the waters...etc."

At the heart of the entire dispute, lies philosophy. They will not be argued out of a position they were not argued into. Sometimes we are, though.

Natural Rights are grown in Montana, next to the Dental Floss. This has been my semi-annual rights rant. Thank you for entertaining the thought, if any.

[erisian]

Incidentally, you have no rights.

Sure you do! You have the animal rights that all animals are born with:

• You have the right to eat anything you can catch
• You have the right to try to get away from anything that is trying to eat you

[Tom Sawyer]

Natural Rights are grown in Montana, next to the Dental Floss.

You exploiter of Pygmy Ponies!

[erisian]

The animal rights question is about legal rights, not natural rights. No animals, be they horses, pygmy ponies, toads, raccoons, or mosquitos have any legal rights. This is because animals can't read, and they can't understand the laws of man. There is no sense in arresting a duck for jaywalking. Animals are simply beyond the law. Giving animals legal rights makes no more sense than outlawing floods.

It could be argued that in NH, horses, by law, have the right to adequate food, water, and shelter. The intent of the law is certainly that they be provided with those things. But the law confers no rights to horses. It places responsibilities on the owners, who are subject to the laws of man. The law is about animal welfare, not animal rights.

[Russell Kanning]

I see another post of mine has disapeered , at least it was up over night,I also did not here from the member about looking at the horses...If your members want any more info I will be post else where.I have told a few of your members that sensorship is alive and well on this forum ..they are pissed.I guess free speech is only for free staters ..good luck to all ,now we won't listen to you at all..good by  J leblanc  

there must be a reason your posts are disappearing ... I trust my fellow forumnazi admins
"members" of this forum? of some horse group?
if anyone on this forum is mad that we sensor some posts and people ... they can find another place to post and read
Sometimes we do not give '"free speech" to Free Staters on this forum.
Who will you not be listening to? Where you before?
Are you "Joe" who emailed me about post deletions? I didn't know who Joe was.

ok bye ... maybe we will see you again, maybe we won't.

[Sam A. Robrin]

ok bye ... maybe we will see you again, maybe we won't.

But just to be on the safe side, I think I'd watch my horses . . .

[grasshopper]

  Raise me a crop of--dental floss,
  Waxing it up, waxing it down, tieing to the whipping post in the center of town..
  I love old Frank, God bless his sole.
  Ed

[beth]

But just to be on the safe side, I think I'd watch my horses . . .

To be on the safe side you would watch your horses?  Who are you directing this at??  Is that a threat?? 

I dont like the sounds of that..at ALL.

Yes, I am sure you are all wondering why I havent been posting my 2 cents on this whole topic either here, or on COTH (or other horsey sites) there is a reason, and I am sure the party involved is happy that I have been keeping my mouth shut.

Its that type of comments that make the non-free state ppl a little wacky about us free staters, I have been putting much effort into getting the horse community (which outnumbers the FSPers greatly!) interested in the free state project, and the NHLA (as there are many agriculture bills that need reading) and these comments are not helping one bit, I can totally see why ppl call us the FREAK STATERS. 

Please correct me if I am wrong about the gist of your comment Sam. 

Ok, im going to go back to keeping my mouth shut now.

Former caretaker/employee of Castle Wood Farm,
Current caretaker/employee of Rockin' Horse Ranch
Beth