Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[xyz]

All right.  I'm a troll.  I will admit it.      I've been reading this thread since day numero uno.  I've found it very interesting.  It is rare that I get to see a case such as this from both sides....

I have no comments to make about whether a horse is or should be property or whether or not they have rights.  I've not met a horse that would argue his/her case with me, so they either don't care, or they don't talk.  Whichever, doesn't matter.  What they do is eat, poop and make more horses.  As Heidi's head count rises and her horses wallow in their own manure, I'm sure she has at least figured out the second two things on that list by now....

So, as has been suggested in the scuttle butt, the horses are being returned to Castle Rock Farm     this evening.  They are not 100% at the top of their game and they are not "in good flesh" with "blooming coats" as we say in the horse industry.  They had a tough winter and that was simply not possible to accomplish in five short weeks.  However, they are not at risk, hopefully, of dying in their owner's care at this point and as of today the shelter law is no longer in effect.  Therefore, Hoardy, Ahem, I mean Heidi, will be getting the rest of her herd back.   

Now, why don't all you guys put this thread to rest and get off your butts and keyboards.  Put your money where your mouths are and help them out a bit.  Be it by friendly chit chat, training and education, contributing financially to their cause, volunteering to help clean the paddocks, feeding, watering, brushing & handling the horses, building sheds, convincing them that they have WAY too many and should sell some or by ostracizing them, if that's your gig  - whatever it takes so that the animals (Brian and Heidi included) do not end up in this situation again.  It is time to practice what all y'all are preachin'.   

It's not rocket science but it's not easy either.  It's a boat load of thankless work, but guess what, the vast majority of it is FREE.  Cleaning Paddocks - $0.;  Scrubbing and Filling Water Buckets - $0.;  Brushing horses - $0.  Get the point?  Once the routine maintenance items such as food, wormer, farrier care, vaccines, odds and ends for the fencing, etc. are bought the rest is simply time.  However, that is a commodity too and with a full time job, a house and kids(?) and 30 horses.  Superwoman wouldn't be able to manage it.  Properly caring for 30 horses (and I mean real care,  ie:  EVERY DAY  -  feeding/watering, cleaning, grooming, training and routine hoof/vet care as needed) could very certainly be a full time - 40hr/wk. job for 3 people - 10 horses each.  Heidi does not have that kind of support.  Now she doesn't even have Beth.  Since you guys want to dissect this every which way, why not head on over there and see what you can do with all that.  It would certainly be a lot more proactive.   

At the very least you'd get to see her horses; although they ain't much to look at I'm afraid. The REAL ISSUE here, is the care or lack thereof that the horses were receiving on the Travis/Fredrick property.   

[Lloyd Danforth]

Sounds expensive to be involved in stealing horses

[AntonLee]

xyz, don't you know the government wouldn't have given back horses to people who couldn't take care of them correctly?

If they abused the animals, what's to stop them from doing so again?  If they are suspected of abusing animals, do you think the government is right to give them back? 

I've never seen one picture showing any abuse.  That coupled with the return of the animals only tells me that this was just another silly vendetta.  Unfortunately, it was from someone who was supposed to take care of them but decided not to.  Even more unfortunately it was from someone who thought they believed in freedom. 

How pathetic.

[J Leblanc]

I'm surprised that I am the fist to post this news.All but one horse has been returned to Brain and his wife.Of corses I helped bring them back, but I'm not real happy about it .Brian of corses came out with his camera and checked me out along with my truck and trailer.I think he figured out that it was me .I even sent back a bag of grain with Steve so if she changed thier grain ,it would be easier for the horses.I have said all along that this was only about them .It just pissed me off to here the bullshit that came out of Brains mouth when this whole thing started.Let see how we are protrayed in the next Travis video.I'll get arround to posting the story from the start when I have the right mind set..I guess there is some deal where Brain and his wife get another chance to do the right thing for these horses If I get the call to go back from Steve or Candia PD. I'll be right there ,infront with my own film crew and I'll be pissed .I hope  for the horses sake they prove me wrong .We put alot of time in on these horses and I don't want to see it go to waste! GOOD LUCK! YOUR GOING TO NEED IT!

[MaineShark]

Now, why don't all you guys put this thread to rest and get off your butts and keyboards.  Put your money where your mouths are and help them out a bit.  Be it by friendly chit chat, training and education, contributing financially to their cause, volunteering to help clean the paddocks, feeding, watering, brushing & handling the horses, building sheds, convincing them that they have WAY too many and should sell some or by ostracizing them, if that's your gig  - whatever it takes so that the animals (Brian and Heidi included) do not end up in this situation again.  It is time to practice what all y'all are preachin'.   

Why don't you (meaning all the folks involved in this armed robbery, either before, during, or after the fact, and including those who have condoned it) help out by reimbursing Brian and Heidi for the financial costs you have caused them to incur (like lawyer's fees, time and fuel to attend court hearings, and such)?

You could even do it by way of purchasing horse supplies for them, so you know that the funds will go to the horses, right?  Because that's what you care about, and you wouldn't want the financial hardships that you have forced upon Brian and Heidi to adversely affect their ability to care for those horses, would you?

At the very least you'd get to see her horses; although they ain't much to look at I'm afraid. The REAL ISSUE here, is the care or lack thereof that the horses were receiving on the Travis/Fredrick property.   

No, the "REAL ISSUE" is that thugs with guns engaged in armed robbery, and were aided and abetted by others.  The condition of the horses is a side issue that only matters to those (myself included) who care about how animals are treated.  Trying to use that side issue to cloud the situation is roughly on the same moral level as a lawyer trying to slander a rape victim by calling her a slut in order to defend a rapist.  Whether or not that description of her is accurate, it doesn't justify the fact that she was attacked.  And nothing that Brian or Heidi or anyone else does to a horse will ever justify violently attacking them.

Joe

[MistyBlue]

Maineshark...nope, I don't do drama. Maybe we have different definitions of it. I've said things that obviously many on here do not agree with. My opinions, my information and my posts aren't popular...I'm guessing so because I've just figured out what the karma thingy is beneath the screen names.   I personally consider it dramatic to say murder and horse seizures go hand in hand. Sarcastic I will admit to, dramatic...nope.

But wait...I'm the dramatic one?

Trying to use that side issue to cloud the situation is roughly on the same moral level as a lawyer trying to slander a rape victim by calling her a slut in order to defend a rapist.  Whether or not that description of her is accurate, it doesn't justify the fact that she was attacked.  And nothing that Brian or Heidi or anyone else does to a horse will ever justify violently attacking them.

If the Brian, Heidi, et al had not just gone along with the cops, the guns would have come out.  If they had responded in self-defense to that attack, they would have been murdered.  Every law is backed by the threat of deadly force.  The State just gives you the chance to pay up (with money or time) to avoid that.  But if you don't do what they say, they will kill you.  There is no room for opinion there.  That's the fact.

Please explain that *fact* to all of those posting on this forum who've had some sort of civil disobedience they've related online. I don;t think they know they're dead yet. Now I may be a HUGE fan of Monty Python...so maybe as they're being carried off the dead heap they're saying, "But Oim not dead yet!" Someone needs to tell the poor souls.   And forgive my craptastic memory...but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Mr Barsky, so Mr Barsky et all...my deepest condolences on your recent demises.  

For someone who doesn't "do drama," you sure exaggerate a lot.  Thirty degrees below zero?  In Candia?

Apologies then...I had spoken to someone not too long ago from that general area who stated that they had windchills at that temp over the winter there during some storms. If they related incorrect information from me, I apologize for passing that on. FWIW...warmer temps with snow does mean the snow is wet. Which is just as bad for underweight young animals wiith no shelter. So not sure how that helps?

No, calling some punks with guns because you are too childish to deal with problems directly, is whining.  Didn't we hear talk of folks supposedly making drive-by complaints?  Folks who claim they knew there was a problem, but did nothing about it?  That's childish nonsense.  You talk tough, when you are having some other legally-untouchable thug do your dirty work for you.  I doubt you would have the guts to approach an abuser, personally, and try to do what you are perfectly willing to pay your thugs to do.

The folks who made drive by complaints happen to believe in the laws and followed them correctly. Just because they don't share the same anti-government sentiment you do does not make them wrong. It makes them different from you. You aren't by chance going for some sort of master race where everyone thinks and looks alike, are you?      
As for not having the guts...been there, done that and have 11 t-shirts to prove it in the last 5 years or so in this location. More if you count previous locations. Got punched once too.   Sucker punched...but what can one expect from a someone who thinks it's manly to abuse animals and then hit a female about 1/2 his size? I'm one of the people also called in to deal with this type of stuff...and not be government. By my neighbors. And I do the same for wildlife who belong to nobody. And I have a cat sitting behind my computer screen right now that I took home 10 years ago after taking her away from some abusive dorks.   So not sure if that means I have guts...or that I'm dain bramaged.

Shyfrog...I do agree with you that many aspects of government and law are screwed up. I don't agree that they all are. I also don't think public schools raise my children...I'm pretty sure *I* do that. I am the one responsible for making them free thinkers and to question anything and everything. And also for making them responsible before I unleash them on society. If someone's children are being brainwashed by a school...shame on the parents for not being active in their childrens' lives.

LittleHawk...I'm sorry you think I'm exaggerating but if that's your opinion what can I do? I think it's odd that I'm the one you think is exaggerating when it's been pointed out more than once the definite contradictions in the involved partys' statements...but then again I did figure out the karma thing and since I don't share all the same opinions as many on here I'm not exactly the homecoming queen.   I'd go cry into my night cup of coffee here...but apparently I'm also dead according to Maineshark because I have not agreed with authorities in the past. I might cry over my early death though...that's kinda sad.   As for the photos...they'll probably be available in court. I don't think the issue will be tried on an online BB. But two independent vets did score them as emaciated or close to. I do hope you're not another conspiracy theorist who thinks the vets are on the take though.

Lloyd...it is indeed expensive to bring a very unhealthy horse back to health. Oddly enough it's cheaper to care for it right in the first place. So it's pretty obvious the SPCA wasn't in this for the money.  
BTW...I do have to ask about this:

I had the same thing happen when I tried to assemble an Ikea kit!

I'm almost afraid to ask which picture you were referring to.   Please tell me it was the photo of the fecked up chair and table and NOT the dismembered foot covered in what looks like Gorilla Glue?   Because if it was the foot...ouch!  

Anton...hello again. The government needed veterinary proof to seize the horses...so proof was proven at that time by professionals. The law states that the first seizure is temporary only. So they *have* to return the horses. Believe me...they're probably not thrilled about having to return them. That's one of the hardest things working in animal rescue...when the law forces you to return animals to situations where you're almost positive they'll not be treated humanely. But they follow the law. So nope, not a vendetta. The SPCA has to follow the laws as well as the horse owners are supposed to be doing. Independent vets determined at risk animals...law requires they be returned due to it being a first seizure. Plain and simple.  

[cyne]

Deer licenses are sold by the state every year to cull the dear, which are arguably the cutest creature in the woods. So the exact opposite of an obligation to support deer exists in current society. So why is there a positive obligation to feed any other animal on your land?

   Horses and other livestock are domestic animals, deer are not.   
  The deer are not confined to my land, I do not own them, so I don't have any obligation to feed them.   The obligation to feed an animal comes with ownership.   I have to feed the animals I own.   

"You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

 

[AntonLee]

you can see how burned up the horse thieves are that the property was given back to their rightful owners.   How dare someone give back property I rightfully stole!!!  Right?

[xyz]

I'm never going get into your whole rootin' tootin' shootin' gubmint crap.  I guess I'm just a drone....  Honestly, I gave up on the government a long time ago.  It's so broken it'll never be fixed, but bless your hearts for trying.  The other thing that I don't get is that you talk about thugs with guns, but you all seem to have one or ten.  You love your guns - open carry, right?  Does that not make you a thug with a gun?  I'm really confused by that.     What I do know is that, late night,  on a dark NH highway, I'd rather run into a LEO packin' than one of you guys...  Even if I was so tanked I didn't know my name and I was bouncing off the guardrails.   DUI any day...     No offense.

The horses weren't stolen; they were taken into protective custody.  You can't seem to get that straight.  The difference is that stolen property, at least in my world, doesn't get returned.  And especially not in better condition than when it left.  Whether or not I agree with the 2nd chance they've generously gotten is irrelevant.  Do I think they'll do it again?  IMO - Yes.  Historically speaking, most hoarding behavior is continually repeated over and over and over and over and over, until the person goes crazy from ammonia fumes or dies.

Hopefully a little pain in the pocket book will help Heidi to realize that she got in over her head.  Maybe it will force her to sell some stock.  There are consequences to think about when breaking the law.  You guys aren't above the law, at least at this point, to the best of my knowledge.

Hopefully, this will be a wake up call.  Hello ~ The horses are hungry....  I honestly hope that Heidi does do what needs to be done.  I was actually hoping that you guys would help her.  

[xyz]

you can see how burned up the horse thieves are that the property was given back to their rightful owners.   How dare someone give back property I rightfully stole!!!  Right?

It was stolen fair and square!!!      

Actually, while surely bittersweet, rescuers know the game.  I have my own horses that I can love and take good care of.  Honestly, Heidi's - not the greatest.  Whatever, it's what we do.  You love to chat on BB's and puff your weed, we like to help and care for animals.  Different strokes....  It's your thang, do watcha wanna do....  

[Lloyd Danforth]

I'm surprised that I am the fist to post this news.All but one horse has been returned to Brain and his wife.Of corses I helped bring them back, but I'm not real happy about it .Brian of corses came out with his camera and checked me out along with my truck and trailer.I think he figured out that it was me .I even sent back a bag of grain with Steve so if she changed thier grain ,it would be easier for the horses.I have said all along that this was only about them .It just pissed me off to here the bullshit that came out of Brains mouth when this whole thing started.Let see how we are protrayed in the next Travis video.I'll get arround to posting the story from the start when I have the right mind set..I guess there is some deal where Brain and his wife get another chance to do the right thing for these horses If I get the call to go back from Steve or Candia PD. I'll be right there ,infront with my own film crew and I'll be pissed .I hope  for the horses sake they prove me wrong .We put alot of time in on these horses and I don't want to see it go to waste! GOOD LUCK! YOUR GOING TO NEED IT!

It might just be your luck that will be put to the test.

[AntonLee]

people (with or without guns) who don't harm others nor steal from them = good people
people (with or without guns) who harm others and steal from them = thugs

I smoke weed, harm no one, steal from no one, and protect the innocent, and I'm a radical law breaker.

Do you take good care of those horses?  You won't mind if a few of us come by for a wellness check then?  It'll just be me, some friends with horse trailers, a couple of vets, some thugs with guns. . . no biggie. . .

if everything looks good according to what I say, you'll be done in about 3 or 4 hours maybe.

Someday I can only hope to be as good of a horse thief as you are.  Maybe if I put down the bowl once in a while I'll be able to figure out how to completely disregard any notion of private property and pretend that the true crimes in which I'm involved in are merely considered 'caring' and 'helping' and I'll convince myself that I'm doing good by taking other persons' property. 

So when can we come by?  Go ahead and PM your horse ranch address.  Very serious.  If you're not doing anything wrong, then I guess you have nothing to worry about now do you?  Or do you???   

[Lloyd Danforth]

   The difference is that stolen property, at least in my world, doesn't get returned.  

So I steal your car and, after denying you the use of it for a while, return it.  It wasn't stolen. Right?  OK, now that we have established your idiocy, have you considered that Sprowl or whatever his name is won't help you if any fallout that results from this?

[xyz]

Anton, you're a crack up.  Love the smileys.  Too funny....  OMG, I'm crying!!  You know, I almost want to invite you to my humble little farm.  You could see what real happy healthy horses look like and we could pass the peace pipe around until no one cares anymore....

I'm sure we'd have some good laughs at least.

Do you have any idea what Lloyd is talking about?  At least I can follow your posts....

[MistyBlue]

Do you take good care of those horses?  You won't mind if a few of us come by for a wellness check then?  It'll just be me, some friends with horse trailers, a couple of vets, some thugs with guns. . . no biggie. . .

if everything looks good according to what I say, you'll be done in about 3 or 4 hours maybe.

If it were up to you...nope. If it were up to two different and independent vets? Yup. You've already admitted to not knowing much about horses so I doubt you would ever be in a position to rate a horse's condition.

I am a new member and they did the same thing to me.  Took all my horses in Sullivan County.  I wrote 2 articles on NH. Indymedia.  Here are the links with pics.  I would like some input on what they have done to me. They put me in jail for 88 days on a traffic ticket on my own private road.  They sold my horses BEFORE I was charged with anything.  They prevented me from living in my own home for 21 months.  And so much more...  I have been fighting all of this since 2005 and will NEVER give up.  I would like some ideas.

Oh hi Deb! Here's some ideas...stop having emaciated and *dead* horses on your property. Horses that died due to your lack of care. That way you greatly reduce the chances of having the rest taken. Also a good idea to have food for them on the property...oh and water. What was the final death count at your place? Was it 3 or 4?

So I steal your car and, after denying you the use of it for a while, return it.  It wasn't stolen. Right?  OK, now that we have established your idiocy, have you considered that Sprowl or whatever his name is won't help you if any fallout that results from this?

If someone comes and tells me my car is in crap condition and that if I don't fix it up they will come take it...then I ignore that and leave it in crap condition and they come take it...only to return it 5 weeks later after it's been in a Trick My Ride garage with a new paint job and all the engine problems fixed...I doubt I'd be crying too much.
Simple as pie really...don't starve your animals. The saddest part of this is...that there has to be a law on that.