Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[shyfrog]

I have followed this thread with interest. I do not know who to believe. I would like to believe the freestaters (Travis etc) but that would make me biased, as I am staying open to the comments from both parties.

there are way more than 2 parties in this thread.

btw Shyfrog ... your posts are very welcome and make me laugh

Parties!!!!! Woohoo!1!1!! I'll bring the nuts. 

[aworldnervelink]

Unless you're a much smaller than average adult male then you most likely have a higher weight of organs and innards than I do.

Just for the record.... MaineShark is. 

[John Edward Mercier]

Do you take good care of those horses?  You won't mind if a few of us come by for a wellness check then?  It'll just be me, some friends with horse trailers, a couple of vets, some thugs with guns. . . no biggie. . .

if everything looks good according to what I say, you'll be done in about 3 or 4 hours maybe.

If it were up to you...nope. If it were up to two different and independent vets? Yup. You've already admitted to not knowing much about horses so I doubt you would ever be in a position to rate a horse's condition.

I am a new member and they did the same thing to me.  Took all my horses in Sullivan County.  I wrote 2 articles on NH. Indymedia.  Here are the links with pics.  I would like some input on what they have done to me. They put me in jail for 88 days on a traffic ticket on my own private road.  They sold my horses BEFORE I was charged with anything.  They prevented me from living in my own home for 21 months.  And so much more...  I have been fighting all of this since 2005 and will NEVER give up.  I would like some ideas.

Oh hi Deb! Here's some ideas...stop having emaciated and *dead* horses on your property. Horses that died due to your lack of care. That way you greatly reduce the chances of having the rest taken. Also a good idea to have food for them on the property...oh and water. What was the final death count at your place? Was it 3 or 4?

So I steal your car and, after denying you the use of it for a while, return it.  It wasn't stolen. Right?  OK, now that we have established your idiocy, have you considered that Sprowl or whatever his name is won't help you if any fallout that results from this?

If someone comes and tells me my car is in crap condition and that if I don't fix it up they will come take it...then I ignore that and leave it in crap condition and they come take it...only to return it 5 weeks later after it's been in a Trick My Ride garage with a new paint job and all the engine problems fixed...I doubt I'd be crying too much.
Simple as pie really...don't starve your animals. The saddest part of this is...that there has to be a law on that.  

I have to disagree on some of this...
Though I know the horses were the main concern... the traffic ticket on a private road, I find rediculous. Though I honestly don't know the situation... I would be hard pressed to think of one that would be acceptable to such an outcome.
Also, by selling her horses... they broke constitutional statutes. Though someone else making the rules, I find unacceptable... someone then just ignoring the rules they've made I find reprehensible. Its gaming the game.

So while the animal ownership might not be absolute property... it at least should not be outside the current statutes.
Once that happens, we've returned to a ogliarchy... where the layman has no specific protections afforded to them from the system.

[MistyBlue]

It does sound hinky the way Debra claims it all happened.
However...she had 12 walking skeletons of horses and 4 that had died on her property. She pled guilty...

Debra Bazell pleaded guilty to one count of misdemeanor neglect of animals before a scheduled trial could begin in Sullivan County Superior Court last morning.

A plea deal with the prosecution means Bazell will spend no time behind bars, and she will be able to petition the court in three years to once again own horses.

Bazell was arrested in January 2006 and charged with four counts of animal neglect. Authorities found 12 horses near death and four dead horses on her Unity property in December 2005.

"It puts an end to a very sad story and allows those horses to live in peace with their new owners," assistant Sullivan County attorney Jack Bell said Tuesday.

Bazell pleaded no contest to one of the counts and the other three counts were dropped by the state. As part of the plea, Bazell was given a suspended 12-month jail sentence which can be brought forward over the next 10 years if she violates any of the conditions of the agreement.

And since she lied so often about the horses...I somehow have a hard time believing the facts of the story of anything else she claims has 'wronged' her. 

This is a common occurance with animal abusers...they lie constantly and they fabricate all sorts of stories of how everyone is out to get them and they *never* do anything wrong. Even when confronted with photos of what they've done, they'll claim the photos are wrong. They also claim the horses were fine and worth thousands and thousands of dollars. Deb's weren't either...and they weren't poisoned by run off or a neighbor. They starved. She didn't feed them. They weren't hundred thousand dollar anythings. She claims one thing when she writes it and another when talking to authorities:

"I've never seen anything like it," said Kim Jordan, who helped rescue the horses. "It was pretty sad -- poor conditions, no shelter, no food or water on the days I had gone." Police said Bazell was involved in a rescue mission and had taken on 16 horses. They said she was having a hard time caring for them with no real shelter and little food, water or medication. "Over the last year, she was saving horses so they wouldn't go to a meat factory or anything like that, and she acquired up to 16,"

How many multi-thousand dollar horses are saved from the meat truck? I'd take anything she claims with a whole shaker of salt. But she'll try to weasel her way in anywhere for attention, and say whatever she has to so she can have that attention.

With the stolen car scenerio...my reply was tongue in cheek.  A stolen care is a stolen car. However comparing an off the street theft of a vehicle isn't similar to the forewarned seizure of horses involved in the crime of neglect. It would be more similar if your car had been involved in a crime and it was impounded. The people who took it aren't going to keep it...and if by some miracle while it was impounded they dropped a new engine in, gave it a new paint job and high performance tires and then returned it to you...well, that matches the seized horses more than someone just stealing your car.

[MistyBlue]

Friday and Anton...thank you for the kind remarks. 

Aworldnervelink....

[Russell Kanning]

Bald Eagle ... did Jesus log into your account and post?
or did you sign the post as Jesus?
or are you just typing that word for effect?

[mackler]

I think its time to tell the whole story .My next post will do just that but I need to get rid of the anger first .I'll give you this much now .

Did I miss the telling of the whole story, or are you still dealing with the anger?

[Friday]

I think he's been busy returning all but one of the "stolen" horses to Brian.  I'm waiting for the YouTube video on that one.   

[J Leblanc]

Some of you will never get it ! I will give the basics of this story. I look for help at our farm .A friend sends Beth over,and I hire her .After two weeks she comes to me in tears,that she had been trying for months to get Heidi to do something about the under weight horses.She tells me how she is not allowed to talk to Heidi directly anymore by Brain and it gets to the point she had no choice but to ask me for help.Beth informs me of the conditions and that the horses did not have any coggins test done prior to moving them to NH.My concern for not only their horses but surrounding horse farms pushed me to  take beths horse off the property and put it in isolation until the test came back . I told Beth at that time to get a message to Brain that shit was about to go down,witch prompted a call,from Brain to Steve at the SPCA ,leaving a message that the shelters had fallen down in the ice storm 3 months prior and they were just starting to work on them .Brain miss the point of the heads up. I called Steve to tell him what I was told and I asked him to set up a meeting with candia pd and himself at my house with myself and Beth to discuss these problems .I then find out that several conversations had taken place with Brain asking him to fix the problems at his farm.He had more chances than I've ever seen given before. So we all meet at my house and Beth told her story [reluctantly] to Steve and Candia PD .After she told her story in tears I urged both the departments to act fast due to the conditions of some of the horses.We all knew that given the history of Brain and the free staters party that this whole thing was to be done by the book.The fact that Brain open carry's a firearm I ask that all safety measures be done.No one wanted another Brown stand off. We had been told that after the first run in at the farm that Beth and Brains sons were directed by Brain that if they noticed anyone checking out the house that they were to get a shot gun and parade up and down the property line to warn off on lookers.You want to talk about thugs with guns,what the hell do you call this!  Beth of course refused but with this mind set , no one was taking any chances.This whole thing was about the horses ,not the free staters.Brain and Heidi were given all the chances one could ask for AND AFTER THEY LIED TO ALL OF YOU, AND PUT THE FREE STATER PARTY INTO A BAD SPOT LIGHT! I don't go looking for trouble, but many people in the horses community know that I won't ignore neglect and they know that they can turn to me to help when they see it but don't know what to do We are the animals keeper ,wild or domestic it is all of our responsibility to do what we can to keep them from man made harms way .Call it rights or anything you want.If animals are raised for food then do it humanly .Heidi has horses for pleasure to herself which is fine but she needed to do a better job,or maybe not have more than she could handle.I and many feel that there was no choice but to do what was done.I believe in alot of the things your party does but I will always take the side of the animals and the weak.We need some laws to create fairness to all living animals,people too. 

[Russell Kanning]

The Free State Party does not condone the use of force to extract horses from people's land against their wishes.

The Free Staters Party might not exist. But I would guess if they did, they would not care if you guys did this "by the book".

The Free State Project has no comment at this time.

Members of the Free State Project have various positions on this situation.

I would not have done what you did. I don't think it would be right for me to take Heidi's horses, if she doesn't want me to.

[Friday]

New Union Leader article: Seized horses returned to Candia farm

[littlehawk]

Mr. LeBlanc,

Is there some way I can view pictures of the horses the day they were taken? It seems to me if you "are playing by the book" you should have clear evidence of the alleged claims. IMO, this would include pictures.

Thanks in advance,
Littlehawk

[Peacemaker]

New Union Leader article: Seized horses returned to Candia farm

This quote is from the article.


"Sienkiewicz said the state will attempt to get Fredrick to pay if she is found guilty of the charges. If she is found not guilty, he said he is not sure who is responsible."


In other words, if we get our Guilty conviction, we want her to pay and if we find that it was "our bad," then we're not sure who should have to pay.

[MattLeft]

Who's this "Brain" person LeBlanc continuously refers to?

[MistyBlue]

The search warrant and supporting affidavit remain sealed in the case and police have not commented on the probable cause that led to the warrant.

So it remains sealed. Then I have to guess whomever it was that said they spoke to Brian and were told that the documents were unsealed and Beth's name was on it was fibbing? Or that Brian was fibbing about that? I'd quote that post too, but it seems to be gone now?

After two weeks she comes to me in tears,that she had been trying for months to get Heidi to do something about the under weight horses.She tells me how she is not allowed to talk to Heidi directly anymore by Brain and it gets to the point she had no choice but to ask me for help

So for months they were being told that the horses were in dangeroous condition and needed better shelter and more food. And although Beth started buying food for Heidi's horses out of her own pocket and was no longer allowed to speak directly to Heidi...this is all still her fault that they didn't know how to care for their horses? *sigh*
I'm wondering why Beth was no longer allowed to talk to Heidi? Doesn't make sense for the caretaker of the horses not to be allowed to talk to the owner of the horses.

.I then find out that several conversations had taken place with Brain asking him to fix the problems at his farm.He had more chances than I've ever seen given before.

So now we have two previous ACOs telling Brian and Heidi the horses needed better shelter and care last year, the rescue telling them this year, Beth telling them alll along repeatedly and then the SPCA had talked with Brian numerous times telling him the same? Oh and LeBlanc gave them a head's up to start caring for and feeding those horses ASAP to avoid a seziure.

Color me cynical...but seriously...who else needed to talk to these two folks to tell them how to care for their horses enough to keep them healthy? They claim not to have known...it's easy to see it was more of a "we don't really care and nobody can tell us what to do." It seems even if the other members of the FSP had talked to these two, nothing would have been done. 

I am not privvy to the private lives of Brian and Heidi...but it does seem as if there's a hoarding issue going on here.  This is an emotional "glitch" in that an animal owner cannot understand that they cannot afford to care for the multiple animals they feel a need to obtain. It also prevents the owner from seeing or realizing the declining condition of the animals they do have. It doesn't make the owner "cruel" in the literal sense of the word...because they really cannot understand what they're causing. They can be presented with an emaciated animal and come up with a woolrd of reasons why it's that way when only good food in decent amounts always brings them back to health. They might not be "cruel" but the results of this disorder definitely are cruel.

Now I have *no* idea if this is the actual case here. Heidi wouldn't even know because hoarders can't recognize it in themselves. Brian would know though...if Heidi has issues getting along with people, prefers to be alone or isolated more often than not, cannot get along with other people well, tries to drive off other people, doesn't have any/many close personal friends, often attempts to obtain more animals, doesn't do anything with the animals she has, (hoarders are into getting animals, not caring for them)if she tends to make grand plans for the animals she has verbally yet never moves towards realizing those goals, if she tends to also hoard other things...kind of a packrat or has issues throwing things away when no longer needed....these are all signs of hoarding syndrom. Hopefully Brian can look into that...and if this might be the case then Brian is going to need a lot of help from friends and family to help manage the animals on the property and help stop more from coming in or being bred. Because if it is hoarding...then no matter how hard Brian and Heidi work on fencing and shelters and getting enough food it will never be enough because she may keep buying, taking in free or breeding more and more and more. The animals continue to suffer, the family will suffer and keep losing income trying to keep up and they have a strong chance of constantly being on watch for the next seizure.  Because hoarding is not a defense for animal neglect in court to my knowledge. Even if it is a subconscious urge by the animals' owner.

If Brian does contact some of you for help...please offer to do so? Heidi may need some females to make closer friendships with her if she hasn't done that yet in NH...something to help take the place of the hoarding feelings. This could be something to bring the community closer. Hoarding isn't a "disease" or anything...more like a mental glitch in how a person perceives some things. But it can be as strong as alcoholism in some studies.

I'm only guessing hoarding because the facts so far just do not jibe. At all. A lifelong involvement in horses and claiming expertise and yet having so many issues not knowing how to feed or shelter them as they get so thin? And despite what's looking like massive outside involvement telling them how to remedy the situation and all being ignored? Doesn't make sense. I'd prefer to believe it's a glitch other than callous disregard. 

JMHO.