Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[MistyBlue]

I turned that offer down. I knew that Live and Let Live Farm was having financial difficulties. She offered whatever grain she had. I told her I appreciated that offer very much but couldn't accept, knowing their financial situation. I offered the farm a $100 donation, which they turned down.

Really? Huh.
They were having financial difficulties, yet they were still offering you grain because of the condition of your horses? That says a lot right there.
It also says that you knew of a place that does rescue that was having financial difficulties and yet even though you're getting grain regularly and apparently having no issues doing so according to you...at a later date when someone offers you one ton of grain yoou grab it up even though you apparently didn't need it, knew someone who did and didn't ask the donor to please send the grain donation to Live and Let Live Farm? Nice.

Besides, we had grain coming regularly from Manchester Brewing (buy more beer) and Heidi had plenty of blankets for her horses, if only the horses knew how to put them on.

Seriously...you're now admitting the horses needed blankets due to lack of shelter. You are saying the caretaker didn't put them on. So you both watched the horses being cold and wet instead of getting off your duffs and doing it yourselves? Wow...okay. If I had a caretaker who wasn't doing their job I wouldn't continue to watch what needs to be done and not do a damn thing about it. I'd get off my hind parts, put a jacket on and go do it myself. And then fire the caretaker. You two did neither. Yeah, okay.

So what was the comments before by Heidi in the video that you weren't able to get grain very often and only fed it a few days a week when you were able to get it? Now it's regular to get and have grain. yet you still take large donations of grain even though you find it easy to get and afford. And you know of at least one rescue who could have used that grain...but never thought to tell anyone to please send THEM the free grain. *sigh*

[stanford]

The reason I asked Beth to find homes for some of the horses was because the caretaker wasn't taking care of the horses, and Heidi had to take up the slack.

Pathetic.   

It sure is. You hire someone you trust to take care of your property, and you end up doing the work yourself.

It was probably clear to most readers what my intent was, but just to be crystal clear... I was saying that it's pathetic to blame your animal cruelty and subsequent troubles with the law on Beth.  Not to mention evicting Dan just because you're mad at Beth and he's her partner.  Shame on you!   

Shame on you for speculating (I don't know how to do that cool emoticon, but back at ya'). The truth is that they both knew that their residence on my land (plus power, water, and high-speed Internet) was in exchange for Beth taking care of the horses. Once Beth stopped caring for the horses, their trailer would have to go. We all knew that when we started.

Funny thing happened about a week after Beth quit. I got a letter from the town code enforcement officer notifying me that I had an illegal residence on the property and it would have to be removed.

So yet again, the force of the government is used to take property that doesn't meet their standards.

Beth wasn't "evicted" from my property because she wasn't renting from me. I asked her boyfriend to remove the trailer from my property.

Beth, I don't know you that well, and Dan, I've only spoken with you once (at the Travis property, donating my hard labor and a perfectly good hammer (which I never got back) to building horse fences!), but I imagine it was very inconvenient and expensive having to relocate your trailer on short notice with all your personal effects in it.  If you need a short-term loan to help make ends meet, let me know; I trust that you'll pay it back when you can.

I have some tools that I found during construction. Most people contact me telling me they've left something here and I've been happy to return them. Tools that I find that aren't mine are kept in a box away from the tools I use on a daily basis. Let me know what kind of hammer, and I can bring it to Murphy's.

Thanks for helping, by the way. The Free Stater community really helped us feel at home when we moved here.

I feel badly for Dan, too. It was a real hassle to get that thing down there. Beautiful setting, though. We both thought it would be there for a while.

Problem is that when you initiate force, there is always unintended consequences.

[stanford]

I turned that offer down. I knew that Live and Let Live Farm was having financial difficulties. She offered whatever grain she had. I told her I appreciated that offer very much but couldn't accept, knowing their financial situation. I offered the farm a $100 donation, which they turned down.

Really? Huh.
They were having financial difficulties, yet they were still offering you grain because of the condition of your horses? That says a lot right there.
It also says that you knew of a place that does rescue that was having financial difficulties and yet even though you're getting grain regularly and apparently having no issues doing so according to you...at a later date when someone offers you one ton of grain yoou grab it up even though you apparently didn't need it, knew someone who did and didn't ask the donor to please send the grain donation to Live and Let Live Farm? Nice.

Impressive logic, "Rebecca". The people in Maine offered the grain to Heidi. I'm sure if they wanted Live and Let Live have it, they would have offered it to them.

Oh. Maybe I should use your solution and force them at the point of a gun to give it to someone else?

[stanford]

Is it just me, or has this thread jumped the shark? It probably did about 40 pages ago.

Think I'll just head over to Free Talk Live's Excellent Breasts thread.

[MistyBlue]

has nothing to do with offering it at gunpoint...has to do with a sense of community...haven't you stated before that a free society would involve people helping out the people who need it? And you keep stating you didn't need it. So why keep it? Did Heidi not know Live and Let Live could use it? So now it's Heidi's fault it didn't go where it was needed? Passing the blame again?

So I guess your idea of community helping others only pertains to when you do not benefit from it so far that I've seen online. After all, lots of people came to help you build shelters. You couldn't pay that forward by taking the grain and then at least offering it yourself to Live and Let Live?

And why is my name in quotes? Are you hoping that if you keep insinuating that I'm somehow related to Beth that my comments on this forum will be then not be believed. That would definitely help you out, wouldn't it? I'm guessing due to your current karma rating that not a lot of people are believing you right now. Maybe they would believe you more if it weren't your own words I was typing...all found online. People on here have e-mailed me...they know I'm not related to Beth and most know my location. Like I've said...google me. Or you already have...and found out the truth about me and who I am and that there isn't any relation. I know quite a few people on here already have...and found out the same. Could it be you've also checked and now only use the quotes around my name to try to get others to believe I'm somehow related to Beth and family? Everyone is free to google whomever they choose...they'll find out if they care to know. If they don't care to know, they won't bother. And a handful of people will refuse to anyways because they're having way too much fun playing Conspiracy Theory. Doesn't really matter when it gets to court.

And now that the thread has jumped the shark as you say, let's hope everyone follows you away from the thread. Can't be fun seeing your own words contradict what you're saying now. I'm impressed though, some use smoke and mirrors...you lure with boobs. 

[KBCraig]

It's interesting that you continue to speak as if you're providing definitive first-hand knowledge about people you've never met and horses you've never seen on a farm you've never visited.

Not so interesting really...there was *plenty* of videos online to see things.

Really? Because people have repeatedly asked for video and photo evidence to support the claim that the horses were being badly abused through neglect, yet none have been forthcoming. The only videos posted here certainly don't support that claim. If there are "*plenty* of videos" showing otherwise, please post them or link to them.

[MistyBlue]

The news video clearly showed excessively undernourished horses...pertaining to the condition of the horses.

There's also been licensed vets who were quoted in online articles as to the condition of the horses...I personally don't believe the vets are in on some sort of conspiracy. Some may believe that...or say they believe that...only because it might semi-support their position on the issue. But the video was pretty telling. Heidi is supposedly a quite experienced horse person, it's easy to see those horses were malnourished and looked parasite bloated.

As for the rest...I've been using Brian and Heidi's own words. They both say the horses are fine. Then they weren't and it was someone else's fault. They're taking food donations yet claim they can easily afford their horses. They claim that a better solution to SPCA involvement was people helping people...yet they took a large donation of grain they claim they don't need and then keep it instead of passing it on to someone they know who definitely needs it. They claimed these were very expensive race horses...yet there aren't any records with the Arabian Jockey Club supporting that. They've also tried to give away these very expensive race horses. They claimed they had no idea what the laws were regarding shelter for horses in that state at the time of the seizure yet they also claimed they were told by three different people what the laws were. They then claimed they had no time in winter to build more shelters, yet also claimed they were told the first time well before winter. They claimed they had no idea a negatice Coggins test was needed for a horse to cross state lines...yet even 8 year old Pony Club kids know this. They also claim to have had a thriving breeding, racing and show business and there is no way to do any of those things without a current negative Coggins.

I could keep adding to that...but I think their own words are proof enough that these two haven't exactly been forthcoming with much of anything. And again...none of those are my words, guesses, etc....all have been said directly by either Heidi or Brian on quite a few different videos and articles and on this forum.

So call me jaded for not believing the vets aren't in on any conspiracy to make them look like liars. So far I haven't read a whole lot of truthful anything from either one.

[aworldnervelink]

It's interesting that you continue to speak as if you're providing definitive first-hand knowledge about people you've never met and horses you've never seen on a farm you've never visited.

This from a guy in Texas who chimes in on every NH-related thread as if he's some sort of expert! How entertaining...

[Russell Kanning]

It's interesting that you continue to speak as if you're providing definitive first-hand knowledge about people you've never met and horses you've never seen on a farm you've never visited.

This from a guy in Texas who chimes in on every NH-related thread as if he's some sort of expert! How entertaining...

I agree ... that is part of the reason I have had him on "ignore" for many years now.

[KBCraig]

It's interesting that you continue to speak as if you're providing definitive first-hand knowledge about people you've never met and horses you've never seen on a farm you've never visited.

This from a guy in Texas who chimes in on every NH-related thread as if he's some sort of expert! How entertaining...

Rather than "some sort of expert", I've repeatedly said in this thread that I'm not a horse person.

I'm sorry if you think that defending someone else's property rights is somehow subject to geographic restrictions.

[KBCraig]

I agree ... that is part of the reason I have had him on "ignore" for many years now.

I stopped caring what you think a long time ago.

[Atlas]

It's interesting that you continue to speak as if you're providing definitive first-hand knowledge about people you've never met and horses you've never seen on a farm you've never visited.

This from a guy in Texas who chimes in on every NH-related thread

He's an FSP participant isn't he? What's the problem?

[Russell Kanning]

He's an FSP participant isn't he? What's the problem?

just because a person says they are a part of the FSP does not make them part of our community ... obviously guys like kevin and I don't consider everyone from the fsp to be part of every discussion. The fsp is a big tent that has people in it that I might not welcome with open arms into smaller groups.
I don't know what has been happening at their farm or between these folks much ... so my comments are discounted or ignored also ... or I don't make them.

[MaineShark]

I give up Joe...from now on pontificate away. I had no idea I was a liar because you've quoted me and because you think I somehow support murder of any sort for any reason. Which you *are* lying about, show me where I've ever stated that. ANYWHERE online.

I've quoted your support for murdering Brian numerous times.

The fact that he defused the situation, such that your beloved thugs didn't murder him, does not change the fact that you support murder.

As for changing content of my posts...nope, haven't done it in this thread. Corrected a few typos, added paragraph spacers. Did remove one line from a post about Deb The Convicted Horse Killer when she piped up looking for support here. Just thought I'd clue others in on HER habit of lying. I removed the one line because I typed it and then thought better of calling her something that wasn't appropriate to the thread. Other than that...no changes.

You can keep lying, but anyone with any sense can go back and check your posts, and see the edits that occur after others have already replied.

So I had no idea they make plastic pallets...that somehow makes me a poor farmer. Okay. I don't work with pallets except for the occasional delivery that comes on a pallet, where we remove pallet and return it...you don't work with horses I have yet to call you a liar or idiot for not knowing about horses.

Not being aware of a very common piece of material that would be found around many farms, does tend to impeach your credibility as a farmer.  Even if you've never used one, you should still know that such things exist...

Joe

[Old Oz]

This is my first post to a forum, as I have 4 businesses, a wife, eight children, 4 cats, and 2 dogs that I am responsible for. I was compelled to weigh in on this situation.

My oldest son has been converting me from a conservative republican for some years now. He still considers me a bit of a "Statist" but admits I've come a long way. Everyone I have met through "Free Talk Live", "Liberty Forum", the Free State project etc.. have been very cool and rational people. I enjoy being associated with people like Brian and his family, Mark and Ian,and Gardner to name a few. I enjoy the diversity and comradery of people who love freedom and liberty as my son and his friends do.

What really resonates with me is the pointing out of "the gun in the room". I cannot imagine a situation that could not be dealt with through mediation from peers in the Liberty movement or others that are professional mediators. When I heard a fellow "Lover of Liberty" sending government goons with their guns to Brian's house to steal his property and threaten his family I could not believe it.

That should never be an option, especially in the "Free State". Ian, Sam and others have been submitted to this type of "thuggery" and suffered because of misguided citizens using bureaucratic hit squads to do their bidding.

We are supposed to be the people that use rational thought and non-violence to solve disputes. Sorry for rambling, but lets not abuse each other, as there are plenty of people with the power of government behind them that are trying to do that every day.