Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[stanford]

Looks like Beth has learned that invoking the violence of government is bad for her social status among the liberty community. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like she has yet learned that it is wrong.

Now she's offering her expertise to others so they can do the same:

I have been getting a few emails about the conditions of the horses, how the water is dirty, how they dont look well groomed, with matted manes, and how they are ribby, emails from free staters, who were wondering if people were checking up on the horses. At this point, I just pointed them in the direction of the NHSPA, to make a complaint, take pics, and file a formal statement with the police dept, if they really feel there is an issue. Im sure they will be turned in again...I love it when non horse people ask me "is the long hair on the neck suppose to be looking like dred locks?"

I sure see another round of horse stealing this winter. Maybe we can get a part 2 of Heidi's acting on youtube.


Beth

So Beth's tips for invoking the violence of the government:

• Make a complaint
• Take pictures
• File a report with the police

Oh, she forgot one: Insist on a sealed affidavit so you can buy time until you can build support for your actions in public forums.

From http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=194174&highlight=candia&page=50

That forum seems to be the central meeting place of the horse ladies who know everything about how you should take care of your horse. For the freedom-lovers, it might be worth a trip over there to see what we are up against. The self-righteousness and smugness of these people and their exuberance to get government involved in other people's property is sickening.

Just go there on an empty stomach or you may end up seeing lunch again.

[AntonLee]

she called them free staters, lol.

[MaineShark]

Animal abuse, if it happened (and no one has proven anything remotely approaching unbiased evidence that it has, so I sure won't condemn an innocent person based upon unfounded accusations), is reprehensible.

Human abuse, which absolutely happened, and the perpetrators of which are seeking to have happen again, is so evil that it makes animal abuse look good.

Joe

[AntonLee]

my online karma goes to shit because of this thread.  It makes me want to stop posting in it.  The only thing stopping me is real karma.  I'd have some serious real life smiting in my own mind if I didn't speak out about human on human crime.

[stanford]

Anton, my friend, I'm sorry that your karma has suffered at the mouse-clicks of the horse-lady trolls. Rest assured that your NHUnderground karma has nothing to do with the good work you are doing to change the hearts and minds of the sane people who are reading this thread.

To the people reading this post, please note the [applaud] link on AntonLee's posts and click it to get him back to his pre-horse-theft levels. He's earned it! And visit his site. It's awesome!

The same with MaineShark and the other animal lovers who have been brave enough to point out that "animal rights" takes us down the slippery slope that politicians love to use to divide and conquer us.

[Russell Kanning]

animals have rights ..... to be photographed only with their written permission

[Lloyd Danforth]

my online karma goes to shit because of this thread.  It makes me want to stop posting in it.  The only thing stopping me is real karma.  I'd have some serious real life smiting in my own mind if I didn't speak out about human on human crime.

+1!

[Friday]

my online karma goes to shit because of this thread.  It makes me want to stop posting in it.  The only thing stopping me is real karma.  I'd have some serious real life smiting in my own mind if I didn't speak out about human on human crime.

There's smiting being done on both sides, Anton.  I've lost 10 points in the last two days.  Whatever. I stand by everything I've said on this thread.  And you'd be surprised some of the people who contacted me privately to thank me for it. 

There's still a shameful lack of speaking out about the issue of animal abuse, and an ongoing attempt by some to claim that Beth, two professional vets, the NHSPCA, and multiple horse rescue people were all lying about the horses being underfed and inadequately cared for (matted fur caked with shit, skin sores, wearing wet blankets in freezing weather, untrimmed hooves, fed hay that had been left outside on the ground in the rain and snow where it rots).  And that, per Brian's own posted videos, money was not the issue.

Seriously, does the fact that someone gets "abused" by the state negate any actions he may have done to bring that "abuse" upon himself?  That's the message I'm getting from most of the posters on this thread.

YES, philosophically, horses are property and the owners can do with them as they wish.  In our fantasy future libertarian society, cops (if they even exist) will have far better things to do than go take people's horses away from them temporarily and force food and medical care on them (oh, the horror  ).  But seriously, how come so few of you have the balls to come out and say that, apparently, Brian and Heidi were treating their horses in a cruel manner, and that's not OK with you?  It's not OK with me.  If that means I don't get invited to some parties and my karma winds up in negative territory, so be it.  Like Anton said, there's karma that's far more important than the silly forum kind.

[Pat K]

Well since opinions were asked for here's mine.

I don't see were the horses were treated "cruelly"
Just not up to rich folks standards.

This disagreement was settled by sneaking around
behind peoples back and bring a raid down on their
house.

Brain handled it very well, I am not so sure I would have been as level headed or as kind as he was.

From reading the forums, all I can see is that the "horse people"
are a bunch of self righteous, know it all's.
Who have no problem helping their neighbors out
by stealing and looting in concert with Gov.

I am sure they would bring their trailers around
to pick up the Jews if they were asked to.

I guess that's enough for now.

[Lloyd Danforth]

she called them free staters, lol.

There are probably a lot of people thought of as 'Free Staters'  who are not libertarians and, have little or no understanding of libertarianism, who came on the coat tails of their significant others.

[Pat McCotter]

I know that horses are not food animals in the US but are horse people opposed to the agri-businesses that supply their beef, poultry and pork products?
http://www.factoryfarm.org/animal-welfare-issues/

[AntonLee]

I'm not sure why you're being smited on the forums Friday.  You hadn't even posted in this thread in a while.  I'll give you good karma because I consider you a friend a nice person and you give me lots of cool stuff in Mafia wars  .

When I feel my light inside tells me to stand up for animals, I do so.  I have animals, I keep them hostage, they are my property and I take care of them as I see fit.  I have plenty of balls to come out and speak out when I see that animals are being harmed.  I've still got no shred of proof that the animals were in danger of dying any more than any other animal anywhere are.  Arbitrary rules do not make a healthy animal.  When I see someone abusing animals, I ostracize and let my friends know that they should not be doing business with them. 

What I've seen is humans attacking other humans and stealing their property.  Yes, even to steal them to feed them is still theft.  People who attack others should also be ostracized.  You don't have any right to steal something that belongs to someone else based on some rules written on paper by other people. . .other people who most definitely have something to gain from such rules. . .and let me tell you. . .they're not doing it for the welfare of the animals. . . they're collecting checks.

the vet, the fatass Steve Sprowl, the NHSPCA, they're getting plenty of money and should be focusing their efforts to help animals without violating the rights of other human beings.  There's plenty of stray cats to worry about, the issue here was control.

I see so many douchebags flying gadsden flags now, so many people call themselves libertarian, and lots of people consider themselves to be free staters.

I can call myself a martian.  Saying it, does not make it so.

the issue, in the end, is quite hypocritical on the part of the horse theft supporters.  They will continue to eat beef, chicken, pork, and imprison cats and dogs against their will.  I fear the day that those activities are outlawed as well, for those who keep their cats and steaks will be outlaws and I will stand beside them as well.

[Friday]

the issue, in the end, is quite hypocritical on the part of the horse theft supporters.  They will continue to eat beef, chicken, pork, and imprison cats and dogs against their will.  I fear the day that those activities are outlawed as well, for those who keep their cats and steaks will be outlaws and I will stand beside them as well.

This makes no sense.  No one is arguing that anyone should not be allowed to own horses.  In case you missed it, every single horse has been returned to Brian and Heidi (so much for the theory that this was all a conspiracy to steal incredibly valuable horses and sell them for a profit).  I don't believe anyone has argued on this thread that horses should never be killed as cows, chickens and pigs are.  I know that some people oppose allowing horses to be used as food, but personally, I'm not one of those people.  I am arguing that it's wrong to treat domestic animals in a needlessly cruel manner.  Where is the hypocrisy in that?

[Friday]

By the way, Anton, you're right that I hadn't posted in this thread in a long time.  I was trying to do what I suspect a lot of people are doing: keeping my mouth shut so we can all pretend to get along and be one big happy libertarian community.  But like you said, sometimes keeping your mouth shut is not the right thing to do.  Despite the fact that it seems to have worked out just fine for Brian and Heidi, this has been a serious incident that has had repercussions in various ways.  First and foremost, Brian evicted Beth and Dan over it, which necessitated them having an entire modular home relocated.  I understand that some people now shun Beth over this.  And that a number of people no longer frequent Murphy's Taproom, while another number of people *do*; whether this works out as more or less business for Murphy, and what his thoughts on the whole thing are, I don't know.  Personally, there have been times where I have intentionally not attended an event because certain people whose posts on this thread I find abhorrent were going to be there.  So I guess I am shunning too, in my own way.

I thought your post where you said you felt like you didn't want to post in this thread any more was kind of funny.  This thread has been overwhelmingly supportive of Brian and Heidi.  Not counting a couple of horse people who joined the forum just to post here, I can count people who have expressed dismay over this on one hand.  I remain surprised and saddened by this.  Guess I'm a slow learner.   

[stanford]

...
Despite the fact that it seems to have worked out just fine for Brian and Heidi, this has been a serious incident that has had repercussions in various ways. 

$26,000 in lawyers and "vet care" is far from "just fine". Sandy, do you have $26,000 hanging around that you could pay to lawyers and vet care and boarding you didn't need or want? $26,000.

The NHSPCA called this a "slap on the wrist". They made this statement in a plea for more donations so they could pay their fundraisers more money to get more donations so they can hire more fundraisers.

First and foremost, Brian evicted Beth and Dan over it, which necessitated them having an entire modular home relocated.

Um, before you make a statement of fact, perhaps you should know the truth.

Dan and I had a deal. As long as Beth worked for Heidi, I would let him keep his trailer on my property. Free wifi, water, and electricity too. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me. All Beth had to do was to take care of the horses. Instead, she decided to whine about how they do things in the big show barns and spend the cold days in her warm trailer sending Facebook messages to her friends. I don't know how many mornings before work and evenings after work Heidi had to go out and do the things I hired Beth to do.

About the time the search warrant was unsealed, Beth quit. That was the end of my contract with Dan. He needed time, so we came up with a month-to-month rent. When he could, Dan moved his trailer. There was no eviction. That was the end of the contract.

I've heard this eviction myth before. I don't know who's perpetuating it, but Dan and I parted under good terms when our contract was over. I guess the "mean landlord evicts horse lover for telling the truth" is easier to sell. I read the Union Leader article, titled something like, "Woman has to choose between home and horses". Now I've stepped in a lot of horse shit around here, but Beth's story in that article was deeper than anything Heidi's horses have ever been able to produce.

Even after Dan moved his trailer off my property, Beth was still sleeping in her same home. It just wasn't hooked up on my property. So she really didn't lose her home, did she?

I understand that some people now shun Beth over this.

Even if I wasn't a victim of Beth's need to invoke violence, I'd ostracize her. It's the most effective way non-violent people can show their displeasure.

And that a number of people no longer frequent Murphy's Taproom, while another number of people *do*; whether this works out as more or less business for Murphy, and what his thoughts on the whole thing are, I don't know.  Personally, there have been times where I have intentionally not attended an event because certain people whose posts on this thread I find abhorrent were going to be there.  So I guess I am shunning too, in my own way.

I talked to Keith a few days ago and he didn't mention anything to me.

I thought your post where you said you felt like you didn't want to post in this thread any more was kind of funny.  This thread has been overwhelmingly supportive of Brian and Heidi.  Not counting a couple of horse people who joined the forum just to post here, I can count people who have expressed dismay over this on one hand.  I remain surprised and saddened by this.  Guess I'm a slow learner.   

It's not hard to learn, Sandy. Initiating force is wrong. Taking someone's property is initiating force. Threatening them with jail if they don't pay $11,601 is wrong. The people who understand freedom get it.

The horse lady trolls who have posted on this forum don't.